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The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

fightchatcontrol.eu

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Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#381

Post by supermatt »

RobertoG wrote: post #373
supermatt wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is a discussion about the "unelected" European Commission. I haven't mentioned the European Council because it is irrelevant. The European Commission is formed of representatives of the individual states. They are NOT representatives of the citizens, other than by proxy. YOUR government can request that THEIR representative raise or support legislation among the commission. If you have a problem with your co…

The fact that you think that the Commission represent the states members instead of the interest of the European Union shows how mess up and contradictory the system is. The Council is the body that represent the state members. You probably think that, because the commission is composed by representatives of every country, but they are "bound by their oath of office to represent the interest of the EU as a whole rath…

So your proposal is to remove the input from the individual state governments and make it entirely citizen led?

Wouldn't that make it a government and remove the sovereignty of the individual states?

Not saying thats a bad idea - its just the exact opposite of the usual "undemocratic" rhetoric.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#382

Post by freehorse »

hermanzegerman wrote: post #202
vrganj wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is true, but this attempt is led by the Conservatives. Not more, not less.

Many people here seem to have great difficulty with reading comprehension

And many people here clearly have memory of a goldfish. Chat control (in its different phases) has been brought up and promoted by both conservative\liberal and social democratic factions of the EU parliament. The fact that this time it was EPP that put forward the vote does not mean that just conservatives are the ones pushing for chat control. This is all a fantasy.

Politics is about understanding things in a historical context, not about the last flashy headline and 2-line tweets.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#383

Post by RobertoG »

supermatt wrote: post #381
RobertoG wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact that you think that the Commission represent the states members instead of the interest of the European Union shows how mess up and contradictory the system is. The Council is the body that represent the state members. You probably think that, because the commission is composed by representatives of every country, but they are "bound by their oath of office to represent the interest of the EU as a whole rath…

So your proposal is to remove the input from the individual state governments and make it entirely citizen led? Wouldn't that make it a government and remove the sovereignty of the individual states? Not saying thats a bad idea - its just the exact opposite of the usual "undemocratic" rhetoric.

The EU could be just a bunch of agreements between countries about commerce and freedom of movement. The EU could be a federation of states with proper institutions. What the EU should not be is a superstructure over member countries without proper democratic control. And this is what is now and going worst by the day.

If you are interested in a federation, you could have an American bicameral model, with the senate representing the countries interest (1).

The current path of the EU is, in my opinion, very worrisome. The important issues are decided in close doors. The Commission and the Council feel that they can 'sanction' citizens without judicial supervision. The countries that not play along are blackmailed. The Commission officials feel that they can speak for all Europe when most citizens disagree with what they are saying. They feel that they can block the public discourse that they don't like, and now they want total control of our communications.

(1) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Congress

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#384

Post by indymike »

vintermann wrote: post #351
supermatt wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The European Commission represents the interests of the member states, while the European Parliament represent the interests of the citizens. NO LAW CAN PASS without the consent of the citizens directly elected representatives. There is no "pushing through". If you don't like how you are represented at the commission, then blame your government. It is THEIR representative - not yours. Also, don't forget that the comm…

An empty justification, since a state has no interest apart from its citizen's interests. I hope you agree that elected representation isn't perfect - there is going to be disalignment, ways in which representatives resemble each other more than they resemble their voters. This disalignment can only get amplified with every layer of indirect election. It never gets better.

> An empty justification, since a state has no interest apart from its citizen's interests.

Sometimes a government only cares about a few citizens, or in some cases one citizen.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#385

Post by tokai »

RobertoG wrote: post #383
supermatt wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your proposal is to remove the input from the individual state governments and make it entirely citizen led? Wouldn't that make it a government and remove the sovereignty of the individual states? Not saying thats a bad idea - its just the exact opposite of the usual "undemocratic" rhetoric.

The EU could be just a bunch of agreements between countries about commerce and freedom of movement. The EU could be a federation of states with proper institutions. What the EU should not be is a superstructure over member countries without proper democratic control. And this is what is now and going worst by the day. If you are interested in a federation, you could have an American bicameral model, with the senate…

The american system is the last one we should copy. EU is different, its not a nation, it is made up by nations. All your points reads mainly like you don't understand what EU is now and what it to be more like what you imagine it should be.

Also countries can not be blackmailed enough as the Hungary debacle clearly shows.

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#386

Post by hsuduebc2 »

hirvi74 wrote: post #214
hermanzegerman wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they fall for the "Its for protecting the Children" Bullshit

An encrypted message has never sexually violated and traumatized a child, but I'd bet good money that many politicians have. So, it's quite apparent what we need to protect children from in my opinion.

Are you suggesting something about powerful pedophiles fucking kids in Caribbean and being carried there through Lolita express? That sounds like a conspiracy right? Right?

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#387

Post by supermatt »

RobertoG wrote: post #383
supermatt wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your proposal is to remove the input from the individual state governments and make it entirely citizen led? Wouldn't that make it a government and remove the sovereignty of the individual states? Not saying thats a bad idea - its just the exact opposite of the usual "undemocratic" rhetoric.

The EU could be just a bunch of agreements between countries about commerce and freedom of movement. The EU could be a federation of states with proper institutions. What the EU should not be is a superstructure over member countries without proper democratic control. And this is what is now and going worst by the day. If you are interested in a federation, you could have an American bicameral model, with the senate…

So your ideal is the EU as a federation - i.e. the removal of domestic authority.

Can you give concrete examples of these "important issues" that are supposedly being decided behind closed doors?

What sanctions are you talking about that require judicial supervision? Pretty sure all EU states can issue their own sanctions without needing a court to approve them.

How exactly is the Commission blocking public discourse? What are they doing, and where is this happening?

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#389

Post by Vinnl »

gib444 wrote: post #144
Vinnl wrote: post #135

Just a heads up that this is being posted late in the European evening here, so that will affect who's commenting.

Posted 9:30-11:30pm. Plenty of us awake It won't all be non-Europeans if that's what you're implying

Just a lower percentage than you'd expect on a Europe-focused topic, is what I was trying to imply :)

Re: The EU still wants to scan your private messages and photos

#390

Post by sayYayToLife »

Imagine the outrage if this happened in the US instead because it's in Europe there's just a bunch of apologists here.

The longer I live I think US citizens just have the highest standards for both morals and life expectations.

Meanwhile Europe is happy to get anything.

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