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A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

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Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#381

Post by herewulf »

3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #98
chasil wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a wiki. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eating_utensil_etiquette Edit: The wiki on chopsticks has an etiquette section broken down by country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chopsticks#Chopstick_customs,_...

The difference between the American and European styles has been used as plot point in fictional works, including the 1946 film O.S.S. and the 2014 series Turn: Washington's Spies.[5] In both works, using the wrong fork etiquette threatens to expose undercover agents. Nuts. Apparently I have been a German spy all this time. I don't have time to waste swapping a fork around.

"Nuts" is the correct expression to indicate that you are not a German spy as it is a very perplexing Americanism. Go to Germany and try using "Nüsse" as an interjection! See also: Bastogne.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#382

Post by herewulf »

jacquesm wrote: post #272
3eb7988a1663 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference between the American and European styles has been used as plot point in fictional works, including the 1946 film O.S.S. and the 2014 series Turn: Washington's Spies.[5] In both works, using the wrong fork etiquette threatens to expose undercover agents. Nuts. Apparently I have been a German spy all this time. I don't have time to waste swapping a fork around.

But can you pronounce 'Scheveningen'?

I'll see your Scheveningen and raise you an angstschreeuwtje.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#383

Post by altmanaltman »

rglullis wrote: post #281
technothrasher wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like you are making a different point than the other posters. If the majority of a group does not follow an etiquette standard, it is reasonable to say that the group does not hold that standard. Your point that if any group holds an etiquette standard, then that standard exists is true, but is more tangential to the other point that a rebuttal of it.

> Your point that if any group holds an etiquette standard... Not quite. My original comment was in response to "I see people violating rule X anywhere, even though I was told it was 'wrong'". All I am saying is one shouldn't be basing their behavior solely on what they see others "getting away with".

That might be true for things like laws, but manners and customs are not strictly enforced by any central authority, at least these days, but rather by how culture/generation changes. It is possible that if nobody follows the same etiquette anymore, it means it is outdated and no longer exists. That is the entire point of progress.

At one point in time, it was considered bad etiquette to interact with people of color, but over time, society changed for the better. That etiquette literally doesn't exist anymore. That doesn't mean people are "getting away with" not following a "rule" these days. But rather customs/morals/etiquette are transitory and prone to changes, and one must understand what is and what isn't actual etiquette instead of just following all outdated "rules".

That's also fundamentally different from something like a law, where the ethical thing to do is that you should still follow it even if others are "getting away" with it.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#384

Post by herewulf »

rvba wrote: post #252
jech wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Poland has honorifics that are probably on par to those in Japan > I'm interested in learning more about this! It's very simple, actually. For strangers, you use the third person and the title « Pan » or « Pani » (Sir or Lady). You avoid pronouns, « The Lady has forgotten the Lady's purse on the table ». For friends, you use the t-form ("ty", thou), and use a diminutive rather than the full name. « Johny, you've f…

Calling someone Sir or Madam also exists in English and is nothing special. You left out most of the interesting things. For example the vocative case is partially dissapearing. Someone from Finland can actually understand this topic, since Finnish has multiple cases - more than in Polish language (meanwhile English has one case and if we try very hard we can squeeze something similar to a case - so let's say it has…

> English has one case and if we try very hard we can squeeze something similar to a case - so let's say it has two

This isn't a correct way to describe English grammar. You can either say it has no cases or four cases with no inflections (because it definitely has subjects, objects, indirect objects, and possessives).

Presumably your native language doesn't inflect in the nominative or something like that and your English teacher once gave you your statement as a convenience fact, but the vast majority of native English speakers have never heard of grammatical case (ones who have, have typically studied inflected foreign languages). In Linguistics, it might be used to describe English and other uninflected languages (it depends).

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#385

Post by herewulf »

derefr wrote: post #172
wahnfrieden wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bringing the bowl close to your mouth and picking food up from it is proper. Pushing it from the bowl into your mouth is impolite but common.

So what are you expected to do with the last few sauce-soaked grains of rice that would at best be able to be plucked grain by grain from the bowl, and even then would likely slip from between the tips of the chopsticks? Just leave them in the bowl?

Channel your inner Mr. Miyagi.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#386

Post by herewulf »

bigwheels wrote: post #26
FartyMcFarter wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it means that you're digging up food that is under other food?

It's like core-ing out the goody bits from an otherwise bland pint of ice cream. Who would ever do such a disgusting and selfish thing? :-0

Who would mine the creamy bit from a wheel of brie and leave the hard rind behind?!?!

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#387

Post by Detrytus »

t-3 wrote: post #294
anotheryou wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I vaguely remember something about not finishing completely to acknowledge there was enough

I've heard that clearing the table of food would be considered rude in China, as it means you didn't get enough to eat, almost exactly opposite to the only food-related rule I was ever taught growing in the US - never waste food or serve yourself more than you can eat. That's probably just a "my family" thing though. I get the impression that even saving leftovers is rare among Americans these days.

Which is funny, because the serving sizes in US restaurants are so big that no human being can be expected to eat it all.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#388

Post by avadodin »

craftkiller wrote: post #305
wojciii wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ctrOZIJni8Q This explains the difference. The European method seems the most optimal.

This is bonkers. Just cut the food with your non-dominant hand. If you're so weak that you cannot cut the food with your non-dominant hand then you're either a small child, elderly, or you have a medical condition.

You are getting reported but you should be given a medal —or token if you are an AI or otherwise lack the anatomy for it.

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#389

Post by adrian_b »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #326
adrian_b wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone downvoted this, but the poster is correct, so there was absolutely no reason for downvoting. Rendaku, i.e. the voicing of the initial consonant, happens in the native Japanese words (i.e. not in the Japanese words of Chinese origin), in most cases when they are a part of a compound word and they are not the initial word. This serves indeed to distinguish a sequence of unrelated words from a compound word. The…

> The "f" pronunciation has been retained only before "u", like in Fuji. Well, there is a convention that syllables starting with h- are spelled with f- (in foreign transcription) if the following vowel is -u. There's not much difference in the pronunciation itself; maybe there was more of one when the spelling convention was set.

At least in the recent past and probably also today in some Japanese dialects, the "f" pronunciation must have been retained before "u".

For example, in some Okinawan dialects the "f" pronunciation has been retained before all vowels.

Because of this, after Okinawa was occupied by Japan in the last quarter of the 19th century, the Japanese used "fu" before vowels, to transcribe the Okinawan pronunciation. For instance, the Okinawan syllable "ha" (pronounced "fa") was transcribed by the Japanese as "fua", because writing it like "ha" would have resulted in a too different pronunciation.

So at least by that time "fu" must have been still perceived as clearly different from "ha", "hi", "he" and "ho".

Re: A Japanese glossary of chopsticks faux pas (2022)

#390

Post by ted_dunning »

t-3 wrote: post #294
anotheryou wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I vaguely remember something about not finishing completely to acknowledge there was enough

I've heard that clearing the table of food would be considered rude in China, as it means you didn't get enough to eat, almost exactly opposite to the only food-related rule I was ever taught growing in the US - never waste food or serve yourself more than you can eat. That's probably just a "my family" thing though. I get the impression that even saving leftovers is rare among Americans these days.

There are still contradictory customs around this enough that it is standard practice to warn exchange students from Europe that if they finish absolutely everything on their plate that this is a signal in many American homes that you should be served more. This can lead to some real discomfort as the student tries to eat everything they are given which leads to being given more and more.

So at the same time it is considered poor taste to take more than you can eat, it is also considered poor form to offer a guest anything less than more than they can eat. This also shows up when people rate restaurants by the serving size.

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