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Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

wsj.com

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Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#381

Post by tootie »

trymas wrote: post #256

Side topic, but this number puts into how crazy it was for trump[0] to go on tariff war against enemies and friends alike. All the propaganda and extortionist language about how all countries will pay up to USA. Astronomical tariffs in some cases, trade wars and dramas, alienate all allies and from all of this they got only $130B ? $7T of spending, $1.77T in deficit[1] and they planned to fix this hole with $100B?! M…

It's unbelievable he's still given any semblance of credence for anything he does. Trump is just palpably stupid. He is bad at absorbing information, he is bad at analytical thinking, he is impatient, vain and rash. Aside from his tenuous legal justification, he never once publicly expressed even a fundamental understanding of the basic mechanics of tariff collection nor what balance of trade actually means. You'd constantly see his proxies on TV just put words in his mouth to bend his foolish policy into some coherent. And we're seeing it again with the attack on Iran. No strategy, no achievable objectives, no comprehension of basic facts on the ground. He's really really really just stupid.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#382

Post by Ajakks »

danielmarkbruce wrote: post #183
philipov wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the business, even the appearance of impropriety is damaging. People who work in finance aren't allowed to trade the same stocks as their company is trading, whether they have any inside info or not. The assumption is that simply by being close to a source of information, you are compromised. The same restrictions should apply to those close to government. By being family, he is compromised by default.

Wrong. People who work in finance (I spent years there) are allowed to trade stocks their company is trading. There is a process to get approval. The equities division at an IB might be trading every single name in the S&P500. If you sit in the investment banking division and that division isn't doing anything related to a name, you are likely to get approval. In this case, the idea that Cantor can't do something bec…

Oh - so the kid went out and he got permission to do this?

Where is that? Who approved his request?

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#383

Post by vntok »

behringer wrote: post #348
danielmarkbruce wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wrong. It's not insider trading. Lutnick didn't have inside information. His son just had a brain. Anyone who read the case knew which way the court was going, it was the least surprising decision ever. Perhaps the only surprising thing is that the court ever heard it.

Yeah it's not insider trading. It's just that someone on the inside engaged in trade... Cmon guys you know there's a difference!

You're right, trading by insiders is not necessarily inside trading. Look it up, it's a pretty interesting nerdsniping blackhole.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#384

Post by mejutoco »

aduffy wrote: post #281
trymas wrote: post #256

Side topic, but this number puts into how crazy it was for trump[0] to go on tariff war against enemies and friends alike. All the propaganda and extortionist language about how all countries will pay up to USA. Astronomical tariffs in some cases, trade wars and dramas, alienate all allies and from all of this they got only $130B ? $7T of spending, $1.77T in deficit[1] and they planned to fix this hole with $100B?! M…

They need to refund it *with interest*, according to filings cited in the article.

6-7 percent interest.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#385

Post by NetMageSCW »

llm_nerd wrote: post #185
dcveloper wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're ranting. Many governments, at least the ones that matter, are bankrupt. Quick google shows all G8 countries run a deficit. My "smart play" wasn't on the merits of idea, largely the game theory aspect of moving forward to their policy goals after decades of having no traction. It's a unique idea, policy wise. Don't know if it will be effective. Neither do you.

>You're ranting. Sadly I'm not. I'm objectively stating facts. This criminal cabal of spectacularly incompetent clowns is absolutely ransacking the final days of an empire. It is astonishing how Americans are unaware of this. >Many governments, at least the ones that matter, are bankrupt. Quick google shows all G8 countries run a deficit. The US ran a $2.3 trillion dollar deficit over the last 12 months, and spending…

You are definitely ranting. The facts that might be there are buried in the rhetoric.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#386

Post by myrmidon »

NetMageSCW wrote: post #328
myrmidon wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll turn this around: Do you think it is acceptable for policymakers, lawmakers or people involved in such a process to reap profits more or less directly with (partially non-public) knowledge they've acquired? Because I think not. And I feel pretty strongly about this. The conflict of interest is so glaringly obvious that it should be completely self-evident why every voter should want to prevent, ban and punish an…

>with (partially non-public) knowledge they've acquired What partially non-public information did he have? Be specific.

> What partially non-public information did he have? Be specific.

How would I know? I'm neither Lutnick nor his son.

My point is that there is an extremely obvious conflict of interest here. If your family business is directly affected by decisions and information of the public office that you hold, then the very obvious risk is that you are going favor official decisions that help your business (possibly to the detriment of the majority), and that you leverage non-public information for personal gain.

For this specific case, insider knowledge could be a precise understanding on the "shakiness" of the initial tariffs combined with an insider picture of ongoing legal cases against them (progress and expected success rate).

I'm not saying that Lutnick & sons comitted some kind of crime, but if you let your family business overlap with your public office this much, then the resulting scrutiny is more than justified, and you could make a strong point that such a situation should be avoided in the first place.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#387

Post by warkdarrior »

jlarocco wrote: post #358
Jeremy1026 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> probably Hah, we are 100% not getting our money back. And the higher, tariff level, prices aren't going to go back down either.

Yeah, most of us absolutely are not getting our money back. The importers pay the tariffs, and they might get a refund, but it's unlikely they can distribute the money back to the people who they passed the price increase onto. Imagine I imported 1 ton of rice and paid the tariff. Then I split that ton of rice into 2000 one pound bags and sold them to two super markets, with a higher price accounting for the tariff.…

The other important point is that those 2000 one-pound bags sold, so the market accepted the new higher price. Even after the tariffs are removed, the higher prices are here to stay.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#388

Post by Ray20 »

llm_nerd wrote: post #37
dcveloper wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a smart play for a flat tax. Baseline at 15-20% on imports (proxy for flat tax on income). Then push to eliminate income tax. It's very much aligned with conservative view points on income tax and it's progressive nature.

[flagged]

> It's laughable mathematical fantasy

I mean 2.5 / 3.4 = ~ 75%. A measly 75% tariffs will allow the abolition of income tax.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#389

Post by lokar »

lokar wrote: post #321
trymas wrote: post #256

Side topic, but this number puts into how crazy it was for trump[0] to go on tariff war against enemies and friends alike. All the propaganda and extortionist language about how all countries will pay up to USA. Astronomical tariffs in some cases, trade wars and dramas, alienate all allies and from all of this they got only $130B ? $7T of spending, $1.77T in deficit[1] and they planned to fix this hole with $100B?! M…

Friends? America has no friends, only client states.

I'm serious. The Trump/MAGA view of foreign policy is that the US sits at the top, we owe friendship to no one. We engage with other nations transactionally, zero sum, with the US always getting more.

Re: Judge orders government to begin refunding more than $130B in tariffs

#390

Post by xp84 »

jlarocco wrote: post #358
Jeremy1026 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> probably Hah, we are 100% not getting our money back. And the higher, tariff level, prices aren't going to go back down either.

Yeah, most of us absolutely are not getting our money back. The importers pay the tariffs, and they might get a refund, but it's unlikely they can distribute the money back to the people who they passed the price increase onto. Imagine I imported 1 ton of rice and paid the tariff. Then I split that ton of rice into 2000 one pound bags and sold them to two super markets, with a higher price accounting for the tariff.…

Not only can’t you track down the 1,000 rice buyers, you don’t have any legal obligation to, so you 100% wouldn’t. (Not speaking of “you” just the general case of all importers who get refunds).
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