Isn't the eIDAS2 regulation addressing this issue? It applies to EU/EES and from my understanding would help enforcing the data minimization principle related to user identity. I.e. a service (like a social media platform) wouldn't be allowed to force you to show your identity unless they are required by law to know your identity. Instead, the EUDI wallet provides functionality related to identification through (user-managed) pseudonyms. For services that are required by law to verify user age, the wallet provide means to make verifiable claims like "over 18". Am I missing something?
I'm reluctant to verify my identity or age for any online services
381–390 of 645 posts
Re: I'm reluctant to verify my identity or age for any online services
#382Earlier quoted context omitted.
First of all, if you don't practice any tracking limitation, you're almost certainly giving additional parties (directly or otherwise) access to your personal information. This is marketing data brokerage, this is the whole ballgame. To your point about the actual harm, I've come to see it as a kind of ecological problem. Wasting energy and sending more trash to a landfill doesn't harm me individually, at least not i…
I hear what you're saying, and instinctually I feel gross about it. But, if enabling advertising allows the website I'm visiting to stay in business, I think that might be a trade-off worth making.
I don't understand that thought process.
Why should I give up my data to any private entity?
If their business model depends on ads, then I say it should die.
Re: I'm reluctant to verify my identity or age for any online services
#383Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ok, so suppose I am consenting to all of those things. I still have the same question… how is my life going to be made worse by that happening?
Are you saying ”I don’t have anything to hide”? All of your data starts affecting everything your data is used for. You may get worse rates for a mortgage, or not get one at all. You may be denied insurance or insurance claims. Cherry-picked details of your online activities may be used against you in a court of law, if you ever find yourself in one for any reason (think custody). These are the very mild examples fro…
Oh, I don't think I have nothing to hide. I have plenty to hide, so I hide it.
I just don't think blocking cookies meaningfully protects anything that I want to hide. I feel like it is putting gloves on while you walk around naked, it isn't doing anything to protect your privacy.
> You may get worse rates for a mortgage, or not get one at all.
That is an interesting example, because getting a mortgage is going to require me to voluntarily give ALL my personal information to the company giving me the loan, and they will absolutely use all of that to determine if I get a better or worse rate. I am literally giving them my entire financial history, they don't need to try to piece it together using my browsing history.
Also, shouldn't mortgage companies determine rates based on personal information about you? How else should they manage risk? It would be awful for our society if banks were forced to give loans out at flat rates for everyone. There would be zero incentive to pay back loans, because they can't use you not paying it back to decide not to give you more money in the future. If banks had to give everyone the same rate, they would stop lending money entirely. There would be no way to avoid losing it all, why would you do that? No, we WANT loans to be based on personal information, because that is what allows us to have control over our own financial reputation.
> Cherry-picked details of your online activities may be used against you in a court of law, if you ever find yourself in one for any reason (think custody).
This one seems very nebulous, and a very unlikely and low risk. Courts can do discovery; they can obtain much more personal information than cookie based online tracking data. I can't see how this would be worth considering.
> These are the very mild examples from a somewhat functional society. In the other end of the spectrum, where societal breakdown is imminent, you have things like getting disappeared, thrown in a concentration camp, executed on your own front yard.
If this happens, browsing history is going to be the least of our worries. They might throw you into a camp because you DON'T have any browsing history and that is suspicious. If there is no rule of law, you can't expect plausible deniability to help with anything. If we get to that point, they are going to have a lot more than ad tracking data to work with. The added risk seems negligible.
Re: I'm reluctant to verify my identity or age for any online services
#384Earlier quoted context omitted.
First of all, if you don't practice any tracking limitation, you're almost certainly giving additional parties (directly or otherwise) access to your personal information. This is marketing data brokerage, this is the whole ballgame. To your point about the actual harm, I've come to see it as a kind of ecological problem. Wasting energy and sending more trash to a landfill doesn't harm me individually, at least not i…
The effect of that data is serving you better ads. Its not a big deal. Dystopian governments have way better sources of citizen data than anonymized ad exchanges. It basically just powers product discovery in a giant global marketplace.
This is not just about "better ads" - though I don't understand the term better anyway here. This is about profiling people. Ads are just one benefit here. Profiles can be sold to get a better idea of the potential customer base.+
> It basically just powers product discovery in a giant global marketplace.
That is also incomplete. See how profiling led to ICE finding people - and ICE has a proven track record of executing US citizens. That is also a fact. It does not mean profiling led to the death of the people here, 1:1, but it meant that it is a contributing factor to the build-up of government troops killing people (which is very similar of Europe 1930s by the way).
Re: I'm reluctant to verify my identity or age for any online services
#385Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It is the young people that are growing up conditioned to press accept It's really alarming, actually. I run the cyber security training & phishing simulations at my work, and it's the younger employees that struggle the most. It's like they just assume that everything on the web is trustworthy. It's not hard to see why though. They grew up with app stores & locked down devices. No concept of a file or file system,…
That's an exaggeration. Young people on average have grown up with drastically greater understanding of what a file is than any other generation that has come before them. They grew up using Chromebooks or laptops in school, constantly interacting with the local file systems, uploading files to Instagram and TikTok from the file systems on their smartphones, browsing their phones for files constantly. They know what…
> Young people on average have grown up with drastically greater understanding of what a file is than any other generation that has come before them. They grew up using Chromebooks or laptops in school, constantly interacting with the local file systems, uploading files to Instagram and TikTok from the file systems on their smartphones, browsing their phones for files constantly. They know what a file is, they use & manage files more than any other generation prior.
This argument is like saying you understand nutrition because you eat food every day and haven't died yet.
Re: I'm reluctant to verify my identity or age for any online services
#386Earlier quoted context omitted.
Would you write your name down the side of your car?
My name is on my car, the license plate can be matched to my name in seconds.
To those who have access on the registry - yes. But not everyone knows the name because they do not have access to the registry.
Writing it down would give more information to everyone else at all times.
Re: I'm reluctant to verify my identity or age for any online services
#387I completely agree. The only services for which I will verify my age (and the entire rest of my ID) are bank accounts and other services involving a real legal requirement for real ID. The notion that you should upload a passport to random sites for age verification is unbelievably dangerous. That's a recipe for identity theft. And face scanning is also an invasion of privacy, not to mention very unreliable (my 16 ye…
There's already a spec for this (ISO/IEC 18013-5) and it's been implemented in a variety of jurisdictions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_driver%27s_license
The person gets to see what information the service is asking for and can approve or deny. This'll likely end up being the future of how citizens access government services online.
Re: I'm reluctant to verify my identity or age for any online services
#388When I heard roblox was doing this, I asked both my kids if they uploaded their face data. They both had already. I didn't think to warn them.
Really annoyed a company can ask this of children without parental consent.
Re: I'm reluctant to verify my identity or age for any online services
#389Earlier quoted context omitted.
The effect of that data is serving you better ads. Its not a big deal. Dystopian governments have way better sources of citizen data than anonymized ad exchanges. It basically just powers product discovery in a giant global marketplace.
” it’s not a big deal. Just gets you better ads.” I thought this was just ignorance. Then I checked the profile. They ”have lots of experience with digital advertising “
Really? So the profile is like an ad-bot. Good to know. It was the only account that tried to promote ads; everyone else hates ads, so they don't write in a positive tone about them.
Re: I'm reluctant to verify my identity or age for any online services
#390Earlier quoted context omitted.
The EU has more freedom of speech than the US, the US has just a different way of punishment. It’s much easier in the US to lose your job for what you say as in the EU and in the US the consequences of losing your job are more severe if you don’t have enough money so you can afford to lose it. US freedom of speech comes with a price tag that puts the censor inside your brain.
And in the eu you go to jail for criticing politicians. I guess it's really all the same, eh?
You surely can provide a source.
But even prisoners get healthcare in the EU, so I guess some US citizens would even prefer a EU jail over dying in the US.
Given the recent deaths of two actors and their GoFundMes I can’t imagine the hassle of less fortunate people when they get hit by US medical bills.
The US are one step away from a show like the Running Man shows