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AI makes you boring

marginalia.nu

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Re: AI makes you boring

#381

Post by senko »

ossa-ma wrote: post #135

Sorry to hijack this thread to promote but I believe it's for a good and relevant cause: directly identifying and calling out AI writing. I was literally just working on a directory of the most common tropes/tics/structures that LLMs use in their writing and thought it would be relevant to post here: https://tropes.fyi/ Very much inspired by Wikipedia's own efforts to curb AI contributions: https://en.wikipedia.org/w…

This matches how LinkedIn feeds and thougth-leadership-pieces looked even before AI.

It's not just AI generated -- it's human slop. And here's the kicker: people believe it works.

The reality is simple. People try to sound smart so they can sell something. They don't know how to write. Don't care. Don't have time. They use the tool at hand. They copy-paste.

The result? Devastating.

(this comment guaranteed written by a human)

Re: AI makes you boring

#382

Post by aeturnum »

williamcotton wrote: post #279
aeturnum wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> even if no one reads it I gotta disagree with you there! Code that isn't read doesn't do anything. Code must be read to be compiled, it must be read to be interpreted, etc. I think this points to a difference in our understanding of "read" means, perhaps? To expand my pithy "not gonna read if you didn't write" bit: The idea that code stands on its own is a lie. The world changes around code and code must be changed…

Correct me if I’m wrong, but if you wrote a dependency-free recursive descent parser in C89 thirty years ago it should still compile and return the same AST.

I mean....it will compile and return the same AST on the OS and hardware from 30 years ago. But if you want to get the same result today on modern hardware / software you may discover you need to make some changes (or rather people have been making little changes for 30 years to ensure you can still get the same AST). Generally software has either had little bits and bobs added and removed to keep it relevant or its fallen away and been forgotten.

Re: AI makes you boring

#383

Post by Refreeze5224 »

abustamam wrote: post #375
Refreeze5224 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The boring parts where you learn. Exactly this. Finding that annoying bug that took 15 browser tabs and digging deep into some library you're using, digging into where your code is not performant, looking for alternative algorithms or data structures to do something, this is where learning and experience happen. This is why you don't hire a new grad for a senior role, they have not had time to bang their heads on e…

I actually learn quite a bit from my AI vibe coding and debugging. The other day I had a configuration issue in my codebase that only happened in prod. I didn't understand it (my coworker coded it and he was busy with something else at the time). I asked AI to help and it told me why it was broken and how to fix it, and also fixed it for me. Since the issue was due to the intersection of k8s and effect, I don't think…

> I asked AI to help and it told me why it was broken and how to fix it, and also fixed it for me.

This is just it, you didn't learn anything here. In 3 months, you will only remember that AI fixed some issue for you. You will have none of the knowledge and experience that struggling and thinking and googling and trying things out until it works provides. You may as well have asked some other person to fix it, and they would at least have learned something.

Also, anyone could be plugged into your job when it works this way. All they need is someone who can type into a prompt. Which is much easier to find than someone who actually knows the what and how and why of the code. But hey, you fixed the bug, it ships, boss makes money, the company wins. But you sure don't...

Re: AI makes you boring

#384

Post by kspacewalk2 »

tptacek wrote: post #6
kspacewalk2 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a hazing ritual, it's a valuable learning experience. Yes, it's nice to have the option of foregoing it, but it's a tradeoff.

So the point of a "Show HN" is to showcase your valuable learning experience?

No, the point of building things the hard way, things that you'll be proud to show HN if it works out, is to acquire a valuable learning experience.

Re: AI makes you boring

#385

Post by bityard »

tptacek wrote: post #192
gary_0 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue the term "gatekeeping" is being twisted around when it comes to AI. I see genuine gatekeeping when people with a certain skill or qualification try to discourage newcomers by making their field seem mysterious and only able to be done by super special people, and intimidating or making fun of newbies who come along and ask naive questions. "Gatekeeping" is NOT when you require someone to be willing lear…

Making ham radio operators learn Morse Code was "requiring someone to be willing to learn a skill". Also pure gatekeeping.

To be fair, and to offer context to non-hams: the morse requirement dated back to a time when morse code was _mostly_ the only way to communicate over radio. The problem is that it was held over as a requirement well after voice modes became commonplace on the air. Far longer than it probably should have.

Re: AI makes you boring

#386

Post by jraph »

toldnotmywrath wrote: post #365
taude wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's AI responding to you: "You're describing the default output, and you're right — it's bad. But that's like judging a programming language by its tutorial examples. The actual skill is in the prompting, editing, and knowing when to throw the output away entirely. I use LLMs daily for technical writing and the first draft is almost never the final product. It's a starting point I can reshape faster than staring a…

I don't know if this happens to anyone else but on reading LLM-generated text I did not prompt, my eyes do incredibly quick saccades from start to middle to end in always around It's entirely involuntary, I am just unable to care. It's almost always justified because the text in question is always painfully bloated, and repetitive. The LLM-text you posted could have been (given I didn't read it carefully): "Skill iss…

> It's entirely involuntary, I am just unable to care

Me too. I don't know about the eye movements, but there are probably dozens of us being unable to focus on a LLM-text: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46630931

Re: AI makes you boring

#387

Post by amoorthy »

ge96 wrote: post #264
amoorthy wrote: post #251

We built an editor for creating posts on LinkedIn where - to avoid the "all AI output is similar/boring" issue - it operates more like a muse than a writer. i.e. it asks questions, pushes you to have deeper insights, connects the dots with what others are writing about etc. Users appear to be happy but it's early. And while we do scrub the writing of typical AI writing patterns there's no denying that it all probably…

A tangent, I wonder what kind of people actually stick around and read LinkedIn, the posts on there are so bad. I only go on there when I'm trying to get recruiters to find me for a new job. Instagram too I can't bear to use Instagram it has so many ads.

Yeah, much of LinkedIn is performative nonsense. However, with such a large B2B audience there, it offers a sizable opportunity for people who actually publish useful information and are honest rather than posing.

We have an "influencer" recommendation engine that is decent at finding such thoughtful folks, but it varies by industry. But yeah, it's not easy and I wish there were more thoughtful posters on LinkedIn.

Re: AI makes you boring

#388

Post by abustamam »

Refreeze5224 wrote: post #383
abustamam wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually learn quite a bit from my AI vibe coding and debugging. The other day I had a configuration issue in my codebase that only happened in prod. I didn't understand it (my coworker coded it and he was busy with something else at the time). I asked AI to help and it told me why it was broken and how to fix it, and also fixed it for me. Since the issue was due to the intersection of k8s and effect, I don't think…

> I asked AI to help and it told me why it was broken and how to fix it, and also fixed it for me. This is just it, you didn't learn anything here. In 3 months, you will only remember that AI fixed some issue for you. You will have none of the knowledge and experience that struggling and thinking and googling and trying things out until it works provides. You may as well have asked some other person to fix it, and th…

> In 3 months, you will only remember that AI fixed some issue for you.

That's not exclusive to AI. I've solved plenty of bugs pre-AI that I would go down similar rabbit holes to fix again without AI. I've spent days hunting down bugs like this in the past while only remembering that I spent days on the bug, not anything meaningful. It's not something I enjoy repeating.

> Also, anyone could be plugged into your job when it works this way. All they need is someone who can type into a prompt.

Maybe. The reality is that my coworkers of varying experience levels do attempt to vibecode/debug and are never happy with the results. I don't know what they're prompting, but it just goes to show that it's just as easy as just "typing into a prompt."

> you fixed the bug, it ships, boss makes money

Yeah, that's how it's always been, no? Boss doesn't care how it got fixed as long as it got fixed, and added points if it got fixed quickly so I can work on other features. I may not win long-term if I do use AI, but I certainly don't win short-term if I don't use AI, because I can't afford to spend days to fix a bug that AI can fix in an hour.

Re: AI makes you boring

#389

Post by nicbou »

notanastronaut wrote: post #380
nicbou wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes sense. A vibe-coded tool can sometimes do the job, just like some cheap Chinese-made widget. Not every task requires hand-crafted professional grade tools. For example, I have a few letter generators on my website. The letters are often verified by a lawyer, but the generator could totally be vibe-coded. It's basically an HTML form that fills in the blanks in the template. Other tools are basically "take inp…

There is a sentiment around tools and a particular business sells perfectly fine, cheap, one use tools, for those jobs that you'll only need to do once, maybe twice. But if you want a good quality tool, you spend money on it and buy it elsewhere. That's how I perceive vibe programming. A small one-off job that it would literally take me longer to write than to have generated? Perfectly fine. For anything else, there…

That's a very appropriate analogy. It's also fine to start cheap and replace with better tools once the needs are established.

Re: AI makes you boring

#390

Post by spopejoy »

kouru225 wrote: post #262
ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI bros: " You're gatekeeping because you think the result isn't art! " Rest of the world: " No, we're gatekeeping because we think the result isn't good. " If someone can cajole their LLM to emit something worthwhile, e.g. Terence Tao's LLM generated proofs, people will be happy to acknowledge it. Most people are incapable of that and no number of protestations of gatekeeping can cover up the unoriginality and poor…

What concerns me is how easily the “rest of the world” is changing their opinions about what’s good. If the result isn’t good, then it isn’t good, sure. But in my experience there’s a large contingent of people, especially the youth, that are more reactionary about AI than they are interested in creativity. Their idea of creative value is inherently tied to self-expression and individualism, which AI and systems-base…

> in my experience there’s a large contingent of people, especially the youth, that are more reactionary about AI than they are interested in creativity.

First off -- are you an artist? As in, are you making your argument with skin in the game for something you _need_ to do, not just a pastime that makes dayjobs livable?

Not gatekeeping! Trying to see if you are formulating your position as a creator or a consumer.

If the latter, hate to say it, but your opinion is kind of irrelevant. Ultimately, only artists really understand what's involved in creating real art. Not what's good or bad, but what's at stake and how to tell if somebody's for real.

If you're a creator I'm a little puzzled. Are you really worried that AI is so freaking great that the horrible luddites at bandcamp et al are going to "gatekeep" us away from incredible AI art? This is NOT something that keeps me up at night.

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