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Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

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Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#381

Post by deepsun »

philipallstar wrote: post #376
deepsun wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Xenophobia, of course. I just point out that to me "overstaying visa" is such a completely artificial concept, with arbitrary timelines, and is not explainable by any rational considerations of the state. Otherwise they'd neglect it. Or, as I saw myself in another country, a border guy is like "Wow, you overstayed your visa by N years! Don't worry, let me correct that. I recommend getting a permanent residency, would…

> Xenophobia, of course. Not of course. If you know you're not willing to understand why people think the way they do then what's the point in drawing conclusions from your biases? > I just point out that to me "overstaying visa" is such a completely artificial concept So is the concept of a "country" or a "state". Everything is an artificial concept. The first duty of the state is to have border integrity, so the co…

Far from it. Concept of "country" or a "state" are way less artificial. Up until 1924 USA welcomed almost anyone with any background. Many countries don't care about it today. Australia was populated with literal criminals.

The concept of a "state" and its borders is to determine where its laws apply to. Historically, there was rarely even resources to mark the boundary in any meaningful way. But the problem of two kinds claiming sovereignty over a territory got resolved pretty easily -- whoever has the ability to collect taxes (aka tribute). Immigration was not a major concern at all. If anything, a feudal was more concerned of their tax base moving OUT of their jurisdiction, not preventing movement IN.

As I said above, Spain just gave permanent residency to everyone "overstaying" the visa. Does the concept of Spain as a country stopped "meaning something"?

> The US lets the most people in legally in the entire world, and by quite some measure[0]. If you think it's some xenophobic nightmare of a place then that seems an extremely narrow understanding of the world and the US's place in it.

USA immigration process is very hostile, compared to almost any other country in the world (IMO only UK and Switzerland are comparable). I went through it, as well as in other countries, can compare. Why are you so sure I have the "extremely narrow understanding"? Even paying $700+ for just one form, without any guarantees or money back is already sus.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#382

Post by reliabilityguy »

abustamam wrote: post #373
reliabilityguy wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Crime? I concede that if someone is illegal and they get stopped by law enforcement then I understand if they need to be deported. They are, after all, here illegally. I am not sure I understand your position. If someone in the country illegally, then unless they commit a crime, or stopped by law enforcement, they should not be deported? > The veteran from my previous comment should not have been deported after hav…

> If someone in the country illegally, then unless they commit a crime, or stopped by law enforcement, they should not be deported? Sure, I can see why they should be deported. I don't think it's necessarily a good reason to be deported, but I concede that if you're illegal and get caught doing something you should not have done, then there's grounds for deportation. Like Al Capone got caught because he didn't do his…

> if you're illegal and get caught doing something you should not have done, then there's grounds for deportation.

So, the act of crossing the border without permission is fine?

> That's interesting. Where do you draw the line?

I draw the line in this particular case (and I have not spent time to learn more about his legal troubles, but assuming it was an honest mistake and he was careless w.r.t. hiring proper legal help to know implications on his immigration status) that this person served in the military and had a permanent residency that he lost due to a plea + his age, then yeah.

However, a random person crossing the border? No, they should be deported, and it does not matter if they are black, brown, or a tall Scandinavian blond.

> There's purposely looking for people to deport

Isn't it the whole purpose of the agency? Are there countries with functioning governments that have no ICE-like agency that is responsible to find and deport illegal immigrants?

> Again, if the tactics they're using causes US citizens to carry their own documentation, there's something seriously wrong.

I agree. That being said, I would think we have to examine how we got to this point, and I am not sure the answers and the conclusions would be good for both sides of the isle.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#383

Post by leptons »

tracker1 wrote: post #378
leptons wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What prominent left-wing politician has ever talked about "re-education" camps? None, that's who. I'm not talking about vile rhetoric coming from reddit commenters, I'm talking about people in the current administration - when Steven Miller said "We are in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be" - exactly what do you think he meant?

I guess Hillary Clinton doesn't count, eh... not prominent at all. https://www.econlib.org/hillary-clintons-disturbing-comments...

No, Hillary Clinton does not count. Hillary Clinton is not currently a prominent politician, hasn't run for any office in over a decade, and lost the election during the timeframe when she said that. So you're reaching pretty far back to come up with that.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#384

Post by abustamam »

reliabilityguy wrote: post #382
abustamam wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If someone in the country illegally, then unless they commit a crime, or stopped by law enforcement, they should not be deported? Sure, I can see why they should be deported. I don't think it's necessarily a good reason to be deported, but I concede that if you're illegal and get caught doing something you should not have done, then there's grounds for deportation. Like Al Capone got caught because he didn't do his…

> if you're illegal and get caught doing something you should not have done, then there's grounds for deportation. So, the act of crossing the border without permission is fine? > That's interesting. Where do you draw the line? I draw the line in this particular case (and I have not spent time to learn more about his legal troubles, but assuming it was an honest mistake and he was careless w.r.t. hiring proper legal…

> So, the act of crossing the border without permission is fine?

Sure. If you're seeking asylum, why not go to the country that has a statue that says "send me your poor, huddled masses?"

> Isn't it the whole purpose of the agency? Are there countries with functioning governments that have no ICE-like agency that is responsible to find and deport illegal immigrants?

I can't answer that. But as a brown tourist to foreign nations I can say I've never ever been stopped and asked if I had my documents in those countries, except of course at the point of crossing (airport etc).

But as to the whole purpose of the agency? My question again is, what is the purpose of the agency? If the purpose is to just remove more illegals then I'd say it's not really doing a stellar job; Biden's administration did more deportations without resolving to scare tactics: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/22/us/trump-biden-immigrants...

But I pose to you this question — why not just add more resources to expedite the asylum process, rather than ruthlessly deporting and separating families and kids?

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#385

Post by moate »

tracker1 wrote: post #352
SanjayMehta wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The State exists to protect large monied interests and their power, and those entities in exchange will sell out individuals to the State that seek to undermine their power. The State will never not do this. Reminds me of a certain ideology, can't quite put my finger on it. I think it starts with F

I find it funny how many people think that Capitalism and Fascism are compatible or the same... completely disregarding the fact that Fascism is a form of Socialism borne out of the limitations of Communism.

Which definition of Fascism would you like me to use to prove you wrong?

Also, please don't look at the wikipedia article that literally says "fascism is opposed by...communism".

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#386

Post by moate »

tracker1 wrote: post #379
SanjayMehta wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From just the economic point of view, fascism is the state controlling and collaborating with large corporations.

There's a little more to it than that... but what most people ascribe as "fascism" conflates with authoritarianism, which includes the political and economic structures the people talking or using the "F" word generally do support. There's no communism that doesn't lead to authoritarianism, for example. Which leaves the distinction about economics.

>>There's no communism that doesn't lead to authoritarianism

Unless you believe this because "there's no State that doesn't lead to authoritarianism (based, dope, great take)" saying "this thing is actually the exact same as a thing that is literally the opposite of it" is just whataboutism.

These takes are weak. Here's what I think fascism is (based on like, studying words and theory and philosophy and shit, and not just trying to stunt on my political opposites): It's a far-right, ultra-nationalist, violent, authoritarian world view that SEEKS centralized power and openly opposes liberal and communist parties where it is erected. By design and declaration it seeks to promote violence, masculinity, and a national rebirth to a bygone era lacking in modern decadence.

All this is to say, if you're an Anarchist (hi brother!) seeking to scold the commies for not being Left enough, save that for after the revolution. And if you just want everyone to equate commies with fascists because "then both bad" because you're Right of them, get better at rhetoric.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#387

Post by baconbrand »

reliabilityguy wrote: post #227
baconbrand wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://youtu.be/e4X0hI40a8A Just a handful of examples from last year. As a resident of Minneapolis I can assure you it is much, much worse than these few examples. Are you not familiar with Liam Conejo Ramos? Or Kilmar Abrego Garcia? Just two other high profile cases, but this is far more prevalent than any reporting has outlined. Three of Liam’s classmates were also “mistakenly” shipped to Texas and returned. At l…

I am not familiar with the first one, but the second one is not a clear cut and not “everyone”. Regardless, there is a huge gap between “literally everyone” and individuals who are not a slum dunk citizens, but have questionable status. Regardless, I think this kind of sensationalism desensitizes the public to the point when no one cares.

I think you are a bad person who wants to sit around and talk about this as if it’s some sort of abstract philosophy and not a situation where actual human beings’ lives and health and bodies are being ruined by thugs paid for by my tax dollars. You are a bad person.

Re: Google Fulfilled ICE Subpoena Demanding Student Journalist Credit Card Number

#388

Post by baconbrand »

reliabilityguy wrote: post #232
baconbrand wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I listed asylum seekers and visa holders in detention but they are definitely grabbing citizens too. Usually they do not hold them for very long. This happened at the Target I shop at: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/jan/13/ice-immigrat... Two teenagers just doing their jobs, dogpiled by roughly four adult men, beaten up and released hours later. One of them was just dropped off at the Walmart down the stree…

> Usually they do not hold them for very long. I am confused here. If the law grants ICE (or whatever is the umbrella agency that ICE operates under) the power to detain to determine legality of the status, ICE does it, and then releases people back, the law works as intended, no? I am confused what is the difference between this, and police who can detain a “tall man in black short and red hat” and 10 hours later (o…

I am confused why you want to debate and make excuses for an agency that sent an innocent man to torture prison for all the months it took for the courts to get him back. Honestly. The complete inhumanity of some people.
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