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Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

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Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#381

Post by fullstackchris »

robhlt wrote: post #333
mark242 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that it's going to be the opposite. At re:Invent, one of the popular sessions was in creating a trio of SRE agents, one of which did nothing but read logs and report errors, one of which did analysis of the errors and triaged and proposed fixes, and one to do the work and submit PRs to your repo. Then, as part of the session, you would artificially introduce a bug into the system, then run into the bug…

It's nice that AI can fix bugs fast, but it's better to not even have bugs in the first place. By using someone else's battle tested code (like a framework) you can at least avoid the bugs they've already encountered and fixed.

> better to not have bugs in the first place

you must have never worked on any software project ever

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#382

Post by H8crilA »

J_Shelby_J wrote: post #379
nubg wrote: post #366

To the people who are against AI programming, honest question: why do you not program in assembly? Can you really say "you" "programmed" anything at all if a compiler wrote your binaries? This is a 100% honest question. Because whatever your justification to this is, it can probably be used for AI programmers using temperature 0.0 as well, just one abstraction level higher. I'm 100% honestly looking forward to findin…

Compiling the symbols into a binary is not the bottleneck. Formalizing the contract for interacting with the real world is and always has been the bottleneck.

Nah, it's the 50 tabs in my browser that I no longer have to open before I know the correct incantation to type. I bet someone knows how many tabs an average deveoper is keeping opened when working (like Google or someone with a nasty spying browser extension) - would be cool to see that plotted against the fraction of Github commits that are co-authored by Claude. I predict a fairly tight negative correlation.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#383

Post by kgeist »

drcode wrote: post #205
rglover wrote: post #139

A significant number of developers and businesses are going to have an absolutely brutal rude awakening in the not too distant future. You can build things this way, and they may work for a time, but you don't know what you don't know (and experience teaches you that you only find most stuff by building/struggling; not sipping a soda while the AI blurts out potentially secure/stable code). The hubris around AI is goi…

I'm no fan of AI in terms of its long term consequences, but being able to "just do things" with the aid of AI tools, diving head first into the most difficult programming projects, is going to improve the human programming skills worldwide to levels never before imaginable

>is going to improve the human programming skills worldwide to levels never before imaginable

"We found that using AI assistance led to a statistically significant decrease in mastery. On a quiz that covered concepts they’d used just a few minutes before, participants in the AI group scored 17% lower than those who coded by hand"

https://www.anthropic.com/research/AI-assistance-coding-skil...

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#384

Post by sifar »

skybrian wrote: post #230
pragmatic wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now run that loop 1000 times. What does the code /system look like. It is going to be more like evolution (fit to environment) than engineering (fit to purpose). It will be fascinating to watch nonetheless.

Sure, if all you ask it to do is fix bugs. You can also ask it to work on code health things like better organization, better testing, finding interesting invariants and enforcing them, and so on. It's up to you what you want to prioritize.

And what happens when these different objectives conflict or diverge ? Will it be able to figure out the appropriate trade-offs, live with the results and go meta to rethink the approach or simply delude itself ? We would definitely lose these skills if it continues like this.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#385

Post by carlcarrie »

Good article: Software Engineering is finally being liberated from the "Middle Work" of the last decade.

The AI tsunami isn't just about coding faster—it’s about reclaiming architectural sovereignty from hyperscaler blueprints.

The future is Just-in-Time and Highly Customized.

My full thoughts here: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/carlcarrie_software-engineeri...

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#386

Post by cortesoft »

potsandpans wrote: post #304
GoatInGrey wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be blunt, I think it's a form of mania that drives someone to reject human-written code in favor of LLM-generated code. Every time I read writing from this perspective that exceeds a paragraph, I quickly realize the article itself was written by an LLM. When they automate this much writing, it makes me wonder how much of their own reading they automate away too. The below captures this perfectly. The author is try…

> Every time I read writing from this perspective that exceeds a paragraph, I quickly realize the article itself was written by an LLM. Likewise, I think that this mentality is a modern day conversion disorder. "Everything I don't agree with is an LLM, I have no proof it just feels good!"

It’s the ‘woke’ of the computer world.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#387

Post by igleria »

rglover wrote: post #139

A significant number of developers and businesses are going to have an absolutely brutal rude awakening in the not too distant future. You can build things this way, and they may work for a time, but you don't know what you don't know (and experience teaches you that you only find most stuff by building/struggling; not sipping a soda while the AI blurts out potentially secure/stable code). The hubris around AI is goi…

> A significant number of developers and businesses are going to have an absolutely brutal rude awakening in the not too distant future.

I pray (?) for times like the ones you predict. But companies can stay irrational longer than the average employee can afford.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#388

Post by scoofy »

poulsbohemian wrote: post #378
scoofy wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent Dry January working on a new coding project and since all my nerd friends have been telling me to try to code with LLM's I gave it a shot and signed up to Google Gemini... All I can say is "holy shit, I'm a believer." I've probably got close to a year's worth of coding done in a month and a half. Busy work that would have taken me a day to look up, figure out, and write -- boring shit like matplotlib illustra…

What kind of project / prompts - what’s working for you? /I spent a good 20 years in the software world but have been away doing other things professionally for couple years. Recently was in the same place as you, with a new project and wanting to try it out. So I start with a generic Django project in VSCode, use the agent mode, and… what a waste of time. The auto-complete suggestions it makes are frequently wrong,…

I'm just using Gemini in the browser. I'm not ready to let it touch my code. Here are my last two prompts, for context the project is about golf course architecture:

Me, including the architecture_diff.py file: I would like to add another map to architecture_diff. I want the map to show the level of divergence of the angle of the two shots to the two different holes from each point. That is, when your are right in between the two holes, it should be a 180 degree difference, and should be very dark, but when you're on the tee, and the shot is almost identical, it should be very light. Does this make sense? I realize this might require more calculations, but I think it's important.

Gemini output was some garbage about a simple naive angle to two hole locations, rather than using the sophisticated expected value formula I'm using to calculate strokes-to-hole... thus worthless.

Follow up from me, including the course.py and the player.py files: I don't just want the angle, I want the angle between the optimal shot, given the dispersion pattern. We may need to update get_smart_aim in the player to return the vector it uses, and we may need to cache that info. We may need to update generate_strokes_gained_map in course to also return the vectors used. I'm really not sure. Take as much time as you need. I'd like a good idea to consider before actually implementing this.

Gemini output now has a helpful response about saving the vector field as we generate the different maps I'm trying to create as they are created. This is exactly the type of code I was looking for.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#389

Post by newAccount2025 »

zer00eyz wrote: post #374
J_Shelby_J wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Id wager my life savings that devs aren’t even 1.5x more productive using these tools.

Dead wrong. Because the world is still filled with problems that would once have been on the wrong side of the is it worth your time matrix ( https://xkcd.com/1205/ ) There are all sorts of things that I, personally, should have automated long ago that I threw at claud to do for me. What was the cost to me? Prompt and a code review. Meanwhile, on larger tasks an LLM deeply integrated into my IDE has been a boon. Havi…

The matrix framing is a very nice and way to put it. This morning I asked my assistant to code up a nice debugger for a particular flow in my application. It’s much better than I would have had time/patience to build myself for a nice-to-have.

Re: Coding agents have replaced every framework I used

#390

Post by rglover »

divbzero wrote: post #317
rglover wrote: post #139

A significant number of developers and businesses are going to have an absolutely brutal rude awakening in the not too distant future. You can build things this way, and they may work for a time, but you don't know what you don't know (and experience teaches you that you only find most stuff by building/struggling; not sipping a soda while the AI blurts out potentially secure/stable code). The hubris around AI is goi…

An HN post earlier this week declared that “AI is killing B2B SaaS”: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46888441 Developers and businesses with that attitude could experience a similarly rude awakening.

If you've ever been responsible for large systems, you'll know why that is an incredibly naive position to take.
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