Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support • Hacker News Board

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#381

Post by donkeybeer » Tue, Feb 03, 2026, 10:42 PM UTC

its_magic wrote: post #379

donkeybeer wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you acting so strange and making up misinterpretations of what I wrote? You depend on lawyers either way, whichever license you use, I fail to see how copyright law can be implemented and defended without lawyers. The golden rule is simple, anyone can look it up, I really don't understand what difficulty you have that made you make up such a strange "not even wrong" theory about it. "do to others what you wou…

> You depend on lawyers either way, whichever license you use No, in fact I don't. Indeed, I go far out of my way to avoid these parasites entirely, and anyone who depends on them. I don't give a damn what anyone does with my software. I don't need the attorneys to do anything. For accusing me of "misinterpreting" what you wrote, you seem to be quite confused yourself. What part of "public domain" don't you understan…

>If you're not the industry leader however, because you really only had one good idea and Big Company has more, then what right do you have to try and Stop Progress just for your own selfish ends? That's what this all boils down to: selfishness, due to insecurity.

How the fuck is a GPL library stopping progress? Why does Big Company feel tied up due to a library being GPL? You said it yourself, they could redo it inhouse? If they were such hot shit they'd do it and continue the march of progress anyways.

Its very simple, its so simple I am not even sure I am talking to a functional level of iq: do you think more progress is made from less eyes on an idea? If the changes made by Big Co were available to the public, that's a much larger pool of engineers to take it in all sorts of directions. You are so fucking dumb its beyond words.

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#382

Post by its_magic » Tue, Feb 03, 2026, 10:47 PM UTC

donkeybeer wrote: post #380

its_magic wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You depend on lawyers either way, whichever license you use No, in fact I don't. Indeed, I go far out of my way to avoid these parasites entirely, and anyone who depends on them. I don't give a damn what anyone does with my software. I don't need the attorneys to do anything. For accusing me of "misinterpreting" what you wrote, you seem to be quite confused yourself. What part of "public domain" don't you understan…

>...or they just decide to develop their own version from scratch instead, keep it closed source from day one, and you get nothing at all. Happens all the time. You again seem very confused. Its exactly the same as they closing up a bsd fork. So how is the outcome or incentive any different? With bsd they can do that without any effort, with gpl at least they have the friction and may deem it too much of a friction.…

You seem to be unaware of the basic fact that government--laws and legal systems--is men with guns.

"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force! Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

It's difficult to have a conversation with someone so profoundly ignorant of reality. Do some research and stop wasting our time with your angry rantings.

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#383

Post by its_magic » Tue, Feb 03, 2026, 10:55 PM UTC

BadBadJellyBean wrote: post #378

its_magic wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for all those who've accidentally blown their legs off with it, of course. Just ask the guy who bricked his motherboard due to a systemd bug where his firmware wasn't write protected and got destroyed by a 'rm -rf' command. lol

No software is perfect. Not sysvinit (and it's bash scripts from different vendors), nor systemd. Errors happen. At least for me systemd is a net positive.

> No software is perfect

Especially when it's a giant blob of buggy C code written by a known hack who has multiple decades' worth of history of foisting shit code upon a less than enthused public.

> At least for me systemd is a net positive

For the moment. Just wait until it finds a way to fuck you. It's plotting and scheming behind your back to do so as we speak.

Systemd for some reason seems to uniquely be the epicenter of giant facepalm bugs like LEAVING THE SYSTEM FIRMWARE VULNERABLE TO AN RM -RF COMMAND, a situation which causes alarm to none of the systemd crowd. They just shrug if off. "What's the big deal? I don't get it," they say.

I used to see the same mentality from Microsoft people back in the day. "Why would you use Linux? I don't get it. Windows is fine."

It's because you lack standards. You're completely used to being surrounded by software and hardware that is Fucking Garbage. Everything is like that in your world. You're happier than a pig in shit, oblivious.

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#384

Post by donkeybeer » Tue, Feb 03, 2026, 10:56 PM UTC

its_magic wrote: post #382

donkeybeer wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...or they just decide to develop their own version from scratch instead, keep it closed source from day one, and you get nothing at all. Happens all the time. You again seem very confused. Its exactly the same as they closing up a bsd fork. So how is the outcome or incentive any different? With bsd they can do that without any effort, with gpl at least they have the friction and may deem it too much of a friction.…

You seem to be unaware of the basic fact that government--laws and legal systems--is men with guns . "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force! Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington It's difficult to have a conversation with someone so profoundly ignorant of reality. Do some research and stop wasting our time with your angry rantings.

You are the one who chimped out with a long rant to a perfectly calm explanation man. You are still acting mentally ill. Yeah duh, govt is men with guns. And where in all this are you seeing this supposed "sabotage" of you being forced to use GPL? If you don't like GPL, don't use GPL software. Very simple. Nobody pressured you to. Since government enforcement of copyright is not something you like, I think it's a perfectly fine sentiment to have. I hope you don't mind people releasing all the materials of competitors to the public then. Tell me again , I am not sure its any point trying to reach the skull of someone this mentally ill but I'll still try. If I release something as GPL, whos coming in to your house with guns blazing forcing you to use my library? You choose to not use it, its simple. The government will use violent force to enforce any law, but in this case its easy since you already dislike GPL, just don't use it, government will have no interest in killing you. What a fucking brain dead moron, man.

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#385

Post by donkeybeer » Tue, Feb 03, 2026, 11:01 PM UTC

its_magic wrote: post #382

donkeybeer wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>...or they just decide to develop their own version from scratch instead, keep it closed source from day one, and you get nothing at all. Happens all the time. You again seem very confused. Its exactly the same as they closing up a bsd fork. So how is the outcome or incentive any different? With bsd they can do that without any effort, with gpl at least they have the friction and may deem it too much of a friction.…

You seem to be unaware of the basic fact that government--laws and legal systems--is men with guns . "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force! Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington It's difficult to have a conversation with someone so profoundly ignorant of reality. Do some research and stop wasting our time with your angry rantings.

You also still failed to have the balls to say out loud you think Mathematics is a scarcity mentality. Be a man.

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#386

Post by its_magic » Tue, Feb 03, 2026, 11:03 PM UTC

varjag wrote: post #260

charcircuit wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux is literally 62k C files. The amount of time you'll spend understanding how Linux works will dwarf systemd. At least when studying systemd you will be learning a more modern approach of init systems.

Most of those files are device/fs/network drivers and various arch support. The core you need to comprehend is not that much larger than systemd.

Or to put it another way, systemd has grown to become so large and complex it's like a kernel unto itself.

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#387

Post by its_magic » Tue, Feb 03, 2026, 11:03 PM UTC

DyslexicAtheist wrote: post #252

cf100clunk wrote: post #2

This is a mindblower. To quote Bruce Dubbs: ''As a personal note, I do not like this decision. To me LFS is about learning how a system works. Understanding the boot process is a big part of that. systemd is about 1678 "C" files plus many data files. System V is "22" C files plus about 50 short bash scripts and data files. Yes, systemd provides a lot of capabilities, but we will be losing some things I consider impor…

> To me LFS is about learning how a system works. I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, Linux plus systemd, or as I've recently taken to calling it, Linux/systemd. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning systemd system made useful by the systemd corelibs, systemd daemons, and vital systemd components compr…

8/10

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#388

Post by xerxes901 » Tue, Feb 03, 2026, 11:31 PM UTC

simoncion wrote: post #307

xerxes901 wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a trivial example, you can dynamically depend on other services depending on system configuration (as PostgreSQL does) Depending on what you want to do, a generator might be appropriate: > Their main purpose is to convert configuration and execution context parameters that are not native to the service manager into dynamically generated unit files, symlinks or unit file drop-ins

Well, here are the relevant parts of the service file: get_config() { [ -f "${PGDATA%/}/postgresql.conf" ] || return 1 eval echo $(sed -e 's:#.*::' "${PGDATA%/}/postgresql.conf" \ | awk '$1 == "'$1'" { print ($2 == "=" ? $3 : $2) }') } depend() { use net provide postgresql if [ "$(get_config log_destination)" = "syslog" ]; then use logger fi } If PostgreSQL has been configured, this reads its config file, looks to se…

Yeah parsing config files with regular expressions that may or may not properly handle quoting or line continuations etc is… not a great idea in my opinion.

But of course in this particular case, because systemd makes the /dev/log journal/syslog socket a dependency of every unit by default, there is no need to encode this dependency at all.

Anyway if you really wanted to you could write this script as a generator and have it put a drop-in in /run/systemd/system/postgres.service.d. But… why?

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#389

Post by its_magic » Tue, Feb 03, 2026, 11:36 PM UTC

idoubtit wrote: post #203

jupake wrote: post #193

Modern mechanical engineers, to this day, learn the thermodynamics of steam engines. Not because they are living in the past, but because they are building foundation knowledge that will permeate everything they'll be doing in the future. LFS should stick to academic pedagogy, instead of trying to compete in the Linux Distro space.

The world is vast, and I doubt that every mechanical engineer has studied steam engines, and that it makes a difference in the end. Most modern programmers don't learn COBOL60 or Commodore BASIC. Modern mathematician very rarely study writings of Euler or Gauss; even 50 years old math books may be hard to grasp for modern students. I agree that using a simpler tool for educational purpose is useful, but since SysVini…

"Obsolete"? Apparently you aren't paying close attention.

See this GIANT argument with hundreds of comments? It seems some people believe that SysVinit is, in fact, not even close to obsolete.

If Gnome/KDE can't support the init system I choose to use, then I don't choose to use their garbage software anymore.

Re: Linux From Scratch ends SysVinit support

#390

Post by simoncion » Tue, Feb 03, 2026, 11:50 PM UTC

xerxes901 wrote: post #388

simoncion wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, here are the relevant parts of the service file: get_config() { [ -f "${PGDATA%/}/postgresql.conf" ] || return 1 eval echo $(sed -e 's:#.*::' "${PGDATA%/}/postgresql.conf" \ | awk '$1 == "'$1'" { print ($2 == "=" ? $3 : $2) }') } depend() { use net provide postgresql if [ "$(get_config log_destination)" = "syslog" ]; then use logger fi } If PostgreSQL has been configured, this reads its config file, looks to se…

Yeah parsing config files with regular expressions that may or may not properly handle quoting or line continuations etc is… not a great idea in my opinion. But of course in this particular case, because systemd makes the /dev/log journal/syslog socket a dependency of every unit by default, there is no need to encode this dependency at all. Anyway if you really wanted to you could write this script as a generator and…

Okay, I'll rephrase the question a bit and ask it again.

Imagine that you have a service that has a configuration-dependent dependency on rsyslog. For whatever reason, journald's not an option... maybe it's simply not installed, or this service depends on rsyslog-specific behaviors that journald simply doesn't replicate. It doesn't matter why this configuration-dependent dependency exists, it simply exists and there's no workaround.

Assuming that the rsyslog service is named 'rsyslog', the service with the dependency is named 'stupid-service', the configuration file is named '/etc/stupid-service/stupid-service.conf', and the configuration option to search that config file for is 'logging = syslog', what would the systemd service file generator look like to make 'stupid-service' depend on 'rsyslog' if and only if that config file contains 'logging = syslog'?

You appear to have worked with these service file generators, which is why I'm asking. I expect you'd know what the generator to accomplish this trivial task would look like, or if it was even possible with generators.

Also:

> Yeah parsing config files with regular expressions that may or may not properly handle quoting or line continuations

Nah, this is substring matching and column-cutting. The only use of regexes ("#.*") is to remove comments. Go check out the format docs for the PostgreSQL config file. [0] It's pretty basic and straightforward.

[0] https://www.postgresql.org/docs/17/config-setting.html#CONFI...>