Live data from Hacker News

Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

blog.ncase.me

381–390 of 669 posts

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#381

Because it's common to hate on antidepressants, I've always personally had a bias against them. For the past 15-20 years, november thru february are basically a writeoff due for me due to seasonal affective disorder. Cold showers, exercise, no alcohol, strict sleeping rituals. Vitamin d. I can still sleep 11 hours and feel like reheated cat shit. Enter citalopram. "It will take up to six weeks to dial in" they said.…

> This just goes to show that for me, they're extremely effective.

I am not so convinced. Perhaps your case was simpler, but people can feel chronic depression. They may take some drugs to modify that, but what if the external factors won't change? You can see this issue for some people who have a disease that only gets progressively worse. I think we can not unify all this as "dislike on antidepressants" as a one-size-fits-all formula.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#382

Because it's common to hate on antidepressants, I've always personally had a bias against them. For the past 15-20 years, november thru february are basically a writeoff due for me due to seasonal affective disorder. Cold showers, exercise, no alcohol, strict sleeping rituals. Vitamin d. I can still sleep 11 hours and feel like reheated cat shit. Enter citalopram. "It will take up to six weeks to dial in" they said.…

I had pretty much the same reaction after two days of taking it.

Took a while longer to get the dose right so that my anxiety also mostly disappeared, but the difference in quality of life it made for me is hard to put into words.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#383
post #38
post #4

Please do not take 5000mg/day of Vitamin D. The author confuses IU and mg which is very dangerous.

It's unbelievable crazy what the author suggests, even say "10,000 IU if you're feeling daring / have darker skin / live in less sunny climates.". Just a simple look at the side effects of high dosages: Safety and side effects Taken in typical doses, vitamin D is thought to be mainly safe. But taking too much vitamin D in the form of supplements can be harmful and even deadly. Taking more than 4,000 IU a day of vitam…

I've been taking 20,000iu of Vit D daily for years, split into 10k AM/PM

Regularly have my Vit D levels checked and they are always within the upper bounds of healthy reference range

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#384
post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bit off-topic, but melatonin taken at right doses appears to work very well. (commonly prescribed doses are 10-30x too much and likely cause tolerance). See the post https://slatestarcodex.com/2018/07/10/melatonin-much-more-th...

I’ve heard this before that common doses are unnecessarily high but why is that? Patents?

Rather, lack of. Melatonin is over-the-counter, generic, badly understood by the people taking it and dosed according to personal preference which means marketing it is all abouy big numbers. Bigger number on package = more sales.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#385

Vitamin D and Omega-3 are the two supplements that consistently appear to be super powerful in small studies and then fail to do anything significant at all in larger studies. Pause for a moment and consider the mere plausibility of the claims in the first few paragraphs: The effect size for antidepressants is 0.4, but the effect size for Vitamin D is 1.8? Are we to believe that Vitamin D supplements have an effect s…

Hi, author of the blog post here! Thank you for writing in with your concerns. First: > Please be very careful when someone tries to tell you that supplements are miraculous and pharmaceutical drugs don’t work at all. I'll concede I unintentionally gave the tone that one should replace antidepressants with supplements, even though the conclusion specifically writes: "(Don't quit your existing antidepressants if they'…

> Researchers have noticed it for 13 years! From the linked Ghaemi et al 2024 meta-analysis

You’re cherry picking papers. Others have already shared other studies showing no significant effects of Vitamin D intervention.

For any popular supplement you can find someone publishing papers with miraculous results, showing huge effect sizes and significant outcomes. This has been going on for decades.

With Omega-3s the larger the trial size, the smaller the outcome. The largest trials have shown very little to no detectable effect.

I think a lot of people are skeptical about pharmaceuticals because they see the profit motive, but they let their guard down when researchers and supplement pushers who have their own motives start pushing flawed studies and cherry picked results.

> In other words, if the effect on antidepressants vs placebo is ~0.4, and the effect of a placebo vs no placebo (just time) is ~0.7, that means the majority of the effect of antidepressants & OTC pain meds is due to placebo.

You keep getting closer to understanding why these effect size studies are so popular with alternative medicine and supplement sellers: They’re so easy to misinterpret or to take out of context.

According your numbers, taking Tylenol would be worse than placebo alone! 0.4 vs 0.7

Does this make any sense to you? It should make you pause and think that maybe this is more complicated than picking singular numbers and comparing them.

In this domain of cherry picking studies and comparing effect sizes, you’ve reached a conclusion where Vitamin D is far and away more effective than anything, placebo is better than OTC pain medicines, and OTC pain meds are worse than placebo.

It’s time for a reality check that maybe this methodology isn’t actually representative of reality. You’re writing at length as if these studies you picked are definitive and your numeric comparisons tell the whole story, but I don’t think you’ve stopped to consider if this is even realistic.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#386
I used to take a supplement with 10k vit D units. Made by a reputable company here in Europe.

I did a blood test for vit D metabolites (oh 25 or something). It turned out I was deficient.

The doc gave me 8k units as a prescription drug. In theory weaker. After 2 months I was no longer defiecient (kinda borderline). After 4 months the doc decided to go down to 4k iu.

Now I wonder why some experts are telling people to take 10k iu? Is it because the supplements are crap and contain 10% of what they claim? (I've been taking vit K as well)

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know this road leads to SSRIs at the very least, so I always reply in the negative. Seems odd. Your doctor can't force you to take anything. If they say "do you want to try X?" just say "No". Not giving your doctor full medical context seems like a mistake - for example, maybe depression would be indicative of another issue, or maybe people who are depressed really shouldn't take a specific medication. To each th…

N=1, but last yearly physical my primary care doctor asked me if I ever had anxiety. I said yes, but that I wasn't really interested in treating it outside of lifestyle change. They asked if I wanted a prescription for prozac, without explaining anything about how to does it or titrate up or down or a time frame. I said I wasn't interested again, and that I particularly didn't want to take any medications that you ca…

Crazy. I hear such wild horror stories with doctors. I'd never return to a doctor like that, sorry you had that experience. Still, this feels like a case where the lesson is "get a new doctor" not "lie to one" but I understand that circumstances can make that a pain.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#389

Vitamin D and Omega-3 are the two supplements that consistently appear to be super powerful in small studies and then fail to do anything significant at all in larger studies. Pause for a moment and consider the mere plausibility of the claims in the first few paragraphs: The effect size for antidepressants is 0.4, but the effect size for Vitamin D is 1.8? Are we to believe that Vitamin D supplements have an effect s…

Anecdotally, Vitamin D and B12 had more of a positive effect on my mental health than therapy or any of the half dozen prescription meds I tried. Hiking has the biggest effect though. I think maybe the problem is that therapists are diagnosing people, and psychiatrists are prescribing pills based on those diagnoses, but neither are ordering bloodwork to check for deficiencies. Which leads to a lot of people suffering…

> Hiking has the biggest effect though.

Keeping the mind busy with beautiful things and being physically exhausted can heal a lot of things.

Its like surfing on a big day - you are just too tired to be depressive afterwards. It feels like a weight blanket.

Re: Vitamin D and Omega-3 have a larger effect on depression than antidepressants

#390
A useful way to look at the effects of vitamin d and omega-3s: supplementation isn't really a hack, it's more that their removal is a handicapping of our "normal" state. Our evolutionary conditions would have been more rich in both of those things. Also see light exposure during the day, proximity to green space, etc.
Post reply on HN