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Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

macrumors.com

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Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#381

Post by NewsaHackO »

nabla9 wrote: post #365
wosined wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But people still use/buy it so why would they cut the cost?

There is no ideological argument for voluntary action here. The entire goal is to force regulators to step in. The debate over 'good vs. bad companies' is just online noise and rhetorical trik, no one on either side of the political spectrum wants these systems to be fixed voluntarily with corporate altruism.

But what are they even doing for regulators to have to step in? Making profits from someone selling their product in your market seems pretty valid to me. Are you saying this is anticompetitive to other possible app store storefronts like Google Play or something?

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#382

Post by Recursing »

mhitza wrote: post #203

Just stop publishing the app, not every little thing needs an app. What the use for the app anyway? Notifications and apple pay?

I work on a website that doesn't have any mobile-specific features, new users ask me all the time why we don't have an app.

My sister and my parents basically ~only read newspapers from their apps, despite it being static text with some images.

I don't know how, but Google and Apple are really good at nudging people to use apps instead of websites.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#383

Post by viktorcode »

idontwantthis wrote: post #11

Isn’t this what Epic just sued and won over?

Epic lost on 9 counts out of 10 in the original lawsuit. The one they won is being appealed and in the process Fortnight was ordered to be reinstated in the US. I wouldn't bet that this arrangement will survive appeals.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#384

Post by pjc50 »

willtemperley wrote: post #344
Wazako wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is absurd is finding yourself paying 30% on every digital item purchased on a smartphone app. It would never even occur to us that Microsoft takes a 30% margin on Steam, yet that is what happens on webtoon apps.

Microsoft don't really have an equivalent to iOS so let's compare oranges to oranges: macOS vs Windows. On macOS, Apple don't take a 30% cut on Steam purchases. Steam take 30% however. There's a big difference - when you develop an app for iOS or macOS, using Apple's APIs, platform and app store tech, it's reasonable to pay Apple something and they legally can charge. I don't actually have an opinion on whether 30% o…

> when you develop an app for iOS or macOS, using Apple's APIs, platform and app store tech, it's reasonable to pay Apple something

Is it?

We spent several decades of the PC world, MSDOS and Windows, with zero platform license fees or approvals. This was hugely beneficial for innovation, and this is why everyone hates the sudden rise of platform landlordism.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#385

Post by newsclues »

awesan wrote: post #376
blahgeek wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple could take just 7% cut and still make 20% profits. We can say this to any company, "$X could reduce price by $Y and still make $Z profits", but it doesn't really make any sense. Making profits is what makes a company a company instead of a non-profit organization.

It does make sense to highlight, because this kind of statistic is a very strong indicator that the market is not competitive. This is not a normal kind of profit margin and basically everyone except for Apple would benefit from them lowering the margins. In normal markets there are competitors who force each other to keep reasonable profit margins and to improve their product as opposed to milking other people's har…

Might not be competitive but it’s totally voluntary. No one needs app, it’s not food or shelter, so clearly consumers are willing and able to pay this.

The consumer is willing to pay the price based on the perceived value from the App Store

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#386

Post by cong-or »

2035: Apple takes 30% of my Patreon, Google matched it through their "Competitive Parity Agreement," and the EU fined them both €2 billion which they paid in 45 minutes of revenue then raised fees to 32% to cover legal costs.

The real innovation was convincing us this was inevitable.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#387

Post by podgorniy »

seanhunter wrote: post #284
podgorniy wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you think reality shows so many people using patreon app?

I genuinely don’t know, which is why I asked. Even on mobile I only ever use the website and can see literally no benefit whatsoever to there being an app.

TLDR: user reach and convenience (or avoidance of the inconvenience artificially created by the app store companies to ensure own monopoly).

App stores are another source of distribution of the platform. Apps create another engagement channel. Apps are another way to reach more people and keep them "hooked" longer (push notifications, tighter integration with the system). Poor performance of the website-only apps is often offputting showing lower retention and engagement metrics. People don't konow how to create a web app icon on the home screen, but know how to search for apps in the appstore.

Some platforms make website-based apps harder to create and manage (in the name of the resource optimisation or security). So no background players, no face-based logins, no airplay, battery drains way faster with web based apps, no proper file storage, hard to handle guestures, no restoration of the state of the pages, etc, etc.

When inside patreon company there is a question "do we do the native app or we keep the website" there is no good argument from project manager side why not to do the app as it increases all the metrics they care about and accept future possible risk that something will change from Apple side.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#388

Post by rubyfan »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #369
blahgeek wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple could take just 7% cut and still make 20% profits. We can say this to any company, "$X could reduce price by $Y and still make $Z profits", but it doesn't really make any sense. Making profits is what makes a company a company instead of a non-profit organization.

it sounds like it does make sense because if they are making $Z profits then they are still making profits and are not non-profit. there could also be cases where cutting back to $Z profits might be preferable in case not doing so were to prompt legislation causing someone to be forcibly cut to $Z-1 or even $0 profits from a particular profit source. Which it has been my observation that when someone is saying "X cou…

>there could also be cases where cutting back to $Z profits might be preferable in case not doing so were to prompt legislation causing someone to be forcibly cut to $Z-1 or even $0 profits from a particular profit source.

Not in an environment where regulatory capture costs so much less than any change legislation could bring. The remedy in almost every recent monopoly case has been remarkably nothing. Politicians don’t actually want change, they want the threat of legislation so that industries bring truckloads of money to line their pockets.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#389

Post by viktorcode »

SilverElfin wrote: post #159

With only two mobile OS providers, they should be highly regulated. But given Tim Cook gave Trump a golden award and attended the premiere of the Melania documentary, I doubt they’ll get any antitrust trouble. Disappointing rent seeking behavior.

On the contrary. There is an ongoing DoJ antitrust case against Apple with a long list of grievances. Most of those were already addressed by Apple (since the case was filed a pretty long time ago) the rest will be tested in the courtroom in the following years.

Those cases take a long time.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#390

Post by charcircuit »

pipo234 wrote: post #258
jinzo wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm running a small service, sub 150 users, no online signup kind of business, B2B. Small EU country. 95% of users ask 'do you have an mobile app?' in first 5 minutes of onboarding. Telling them how to install a PWA (and what it is and so forth) is an uphill battle. Unfortunately App Stores rule the non technical crowd.

To many users, an app seems to be perceived as the blessed way to access the web. While on a mobile, they are mostly a way to organize symlinks or bookmarks. Except, off course a web browser does its best to protect the user while most apps don't. Meanwhile I continue doing the Lords work by telling kids that apps are not the internet. Hopefully, that 95% percentage will eventually decrease.

The OS is what protects the user. Have you ever seen the prompts asking the user if they want to share their location?
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