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Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

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Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#381
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. I thought we were there already tbh. Chinese cars have gone from laughably bad to quality parity in less than a decade. Like even 2 years ago, I was still hearing "the paint the paint" as the last remaining issue. But I dont hear that anymore.

Have you seen the paint schemes on new Chinese cars? Wow. Embedded glitter, chameleon colors, while the European car industry is doing boring primer like paint schemes. I always joke that they applied clear coat onto primer. And that's on >60k models.

The "greige" colour appalls me. Not only does it look like primer, it looks like the grey of old PC cases under a brown of smoke. Either basic white or basic black would be better. Or classic metallic silver.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, bicycles and e-bikes cost a fraction of a car.

Yes, and? They're different tools for different purposes. Such a disingenuous comment.

Disingenuous? Plenty of people live without a car.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#383
post #290

The US/EU/JP manufacturers are half-pregnant, they have engine and other mechanical production plants that will become stranded assets as BEVs don't need engines, gearboxes or the other hydraulic/cooling etc infrastructure that an ICE vehicle needs. Electric motors are essentially maintenance free over the life of a BEV, same for the batteries. The maintenance is for brake pads/rotors, but regen braking also avoids t…

> Electric motors are essentially maintenance free

They require maintenance, although less than an ICE, but drive train repairs are not as uncommon as you might think. Manufacturers are always going to pinch pennies.

> That cuts out a large chunk of the automotive industry in general.

Hardly. You've removed the engine, fuel and exhaust system. You still need literally everything else. Windows and motors, doors and locks, wheels and hubs, seats and accessories, gauge clusters and radios, environmental controls, differentials and oil changes, the list goes on and on.

You deliver them the same way, you sell them the same way, you license them into the system the same way.

> US/EU/JP manufacturers are having to handle a major market disruption

That was called COVID. They all handled it badly save Toyota. The oil companies have far more to worry about.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, bicycles and e-bikes cost a fraction of a car.

Not sure if you are familiar with the built-environment in America, but there’s effectively no biking infrastructure and people are openly hostile towards cyclists who try.

Barely any bike infrastructure where I live, either. You can make it work. Give it a try someday.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps people in the future will visit the US for the dieselpunk nostalgia, the same way people like seeing classic cars in Cuba.

Feels bad faith to shit on people from your ivory tower, just because they can't afford to ditch their reliable beaters and buy a new car. Have you seen wage growth vs car price increases lately? Not everyone is on a remote six figure US tech job. Try to view and judge things from outside your bubble as well. I'd also dump my ol reliable ICE car that's now probably worth less than a fancy electric bicycle, if someone…

I don't know what you mean by reliable beaters. By the time EVs are mandatory, my ICE car will have turned into dust and I'd have to buy a new car anyway. It would be pretty foolish to stall EVs only to then be forced to buy another ICE car.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#386
post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota hybrids are full hybrids however, not mild hybrids like other manufactures, so all you really need is a bigger battery and charger. My 10 year old RAV4 Hybrid (not plug-in) can deliver 160kW just from the electric motors, without the engine. That's 3x a Dacia Spring. They have the technology for motors and control electronics, and they know it works long term without issues. Most of the European EVs are basica…

> Most of the European EVs are basically just electric city cars, unable to drive long ranges due to small batteries and limited fast charging. And most of them after 100,000km will need a new battery. Doesn't really fit in with Toyota's 'long term reliability' stance. Australian cities must be enormous for this statement to make any semblance of sense.

Not that big, but absolutely enourmous distances between them. The inter-city highway infrastructure is lacking in EV chargers, but it's getting better.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a 2020 Fiat 500 Abarth, and it is absolutely perfect: There is a screen (I think 7") for Android Auto/CarPlay/radio/nav, and every single other function in the car has a physical button. It is also absolutely gorgeous - pinnacle of design, IMO

Our 2021 Volkswagen e-Up is like this. There is a tiny(like 3" tiny) screen for the radio, bluetooth and reverse camera, everything else is analogue and has physical buttons. It's honestly best of the best Volkswagen design, what they did with their newer cars in terms of interior usability is a travesty.

They fell for Tesla-fication ... and are only now waking up to the mistake.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#388
post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

> Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete with the Chinese.

Huh? This comment sounds extremely America-centric to me. Porsche sells more cars into Europe than North America, despite taking a bigger there (-13-16% vs 0%)!

In general I don't think Porsche is representative of the car market as a whole, given their cars are all premium sports cars to at least some degree.

If you want more representative numbers look at more mass-market manufacturers. Notably, the Volkswagen group has a huge 20%+ market share in the EU, while it is below 5% in the USA. Renault is another example of a strong EU-centric brand and manufacturer with over 10% market share, even over 25% at home in France. Ford is a good example of the opposite, having 13% market share in the USA and only 2-3% here. Stellantis is strong in both markets, but has significant differentiation, even having different brands in both markets.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#389
post #2

While the headline is interesting. I think the table at the end of the article is more so. - Worldwide sales -10% YoY - China sales -26% YoY And when you cross compare Porsche saying they sold more EV powertrains than their gas equivalents against China's new found foothold as the market leader in consumer electric cars (BYD, NIO, Xiaomi, etc...) Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car domin…

> but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power.

It's done. They're already the premier automotive superpower now. It might not seem like it in Europe and USA, but anywhere else in the world they are dominating. I live in Morocco and I am not exaggerating when I say that every week I see a new Chinese brand on the road. Not just cars of the same brand, completely new brands. Dacia and a lot of PSA cars are built in Morocco, so naturally they always had a strong positioning here, but now I'm seeing more BYDs than DACIA's most popular car, the Duster. It's anecdotal but it's quite telling considering the foothold French brands have always had here.

Here's a chart showing the sheer dominance of Chinese brands on the EV market in Morocco. 6 out of 10 models are Chinese.

https://www.wandaloo.com/files/2026/01/aivam-bilan-marche-au...

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then I think you see an early indication not just of electric car dominance, but of the (very potential) rise of China as the premier automotive super power. It’s done man. Americans are stuck in ICE engines because they’ve been told they’re “car enthusiasts” while the Chinese have been developing EV technology for years. Meanwhile, European makers are stuck not knowing what to do, make Americans happy or compete w…

I am in Portugal right now. You know something we don’t have often here? Garages. For example in my neighborhood most cars are parallel parked, people are living in centuries old houses converted into high density condos, there are no garages. So what is more practical, charging your car overnight without an electric plug or going to the gas station for a few minutes?

>>So what is more practical, charging your car overnight without an electric plug or going to the gas station for a few minutes?

100x charging your car overnight with a plug. I don't think people who don't own an EV realize how great that is. Imagine if your petrol car magically got refilled with fuel every single night - add up all of those "few minutes" spent at a petrol station over your lifetime, and realize how much time you're getting back.

>> people are living in centuries old houses converted into high density condos, there are no garages

And yeah, that's a problem everywhere, not just in Portugal. Here in the UK a lot of people wouldn't have anywhere to charge at home.

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