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Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

presidentti.fi

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Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#381

Post by ncruces »

DoctorOetker wrote: post #355
EastLondonCoder wrote: post #252

This isn’t really about Greenland’s strategic value; it’s about the category error. You can trade goods, sign treaties, and negotiate basing rights. You can’t “buy” a people or their sovereignty especially when they don’t consent. That’s why Europe responds with process and principle: normalize coercion-as-bargaining among allies and you’re reviving a pre-1945 model of politics Europe built institutions to prevent. I…

[flagged]

The referendum is on independence. Which they might want if they weren't under the threat of annexation. When given a choice between the US and Denmark, they chose Denmark, and might choose to go all in rejoin EU.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#382

Post by jimbohn »

dismalaf wrote: post #357
jimbohn wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, China will get back Taiwan without firing a single shot, the US is slowly de-risking itself from it and will eventually make Taiwan redundant. After seeing how the US is "helping" Ukraine, will the Taiwanese think fighting an all-out war with allies like this is worth it? China doesn't have the same genocidal intentions russia has towards Ukraine, so less reasons for people to fight it out Edt: would love some a…

Maybe if Xi dies and the next guy is more reasonable. A lot of the animosity towards China is a result of Xi's authoritarian turn a decade or so ago...

That's true, we'll see if China is able to play the long game

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#383

Post by linhns »

mamonster wrote: post #153

Trump is gonna end up destroying EU right wing parties which have been very pro-Trump exactly like he did to Pollievre. I wonder whether UK media decide to hammer Farage over his Trump connections to screw Reform super hard.

Farage has weaseled a distance from Trump, especially after Diego Garcia, which he is still pissed off about.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#384

Post by rpiguy »

pottertheotter wrote: post #359
rpiguy wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This is not true. This person is spreading disinformation. They were closed because the Cold War ended and they were no longer needed.

You are correct I was wrong. Comment corrected.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#385

Post by jonkoops »

throwaway5235 wrote: post #260
jonkoops wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should not be allying with any oppressive and dictatorial states, the US is just rapidly sliding into becoming one, and nobody wants to acknowledge it because of the consequences it would imply. If you ask me, us Europeans need to find our self-confidence, we are more than able to compete, but too scared to take the risks and responsibilities to do so.

Don't get me wrong, I would love that! I would love for Europe to step up as world super power (union), a kin to the Non-Aligned Movement - but unfortunately I don't see it happening.

It starts from the bottom up, we need to make it a priority, it is part of the defeatist attitude we have, total lack of self-confidence. We need a 'Yes we can' movement.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#386

Post by dangiscorrupt »

jh54 wrote: post #370

Why is this not on the front page anymore?? It has more upvotes and comments than anything else posted since it’s been posted 2 hours ago, and has been on the front page for an hour before disappearing Also go EU!

[dead]

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#387

Post by coffeebeqn »

adventured wrote: post #281
bojan wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be a horrible deal for the Greenlanders, and they know it - there were polls recently and Vance was pretty much told that when he visited there. The US is allowed for decades to have a military presence on Greenland, but the US Army has been diminishing it's presence as the time went by.

Up it to $5 million per Greenlander then. The US can afford to pull the trigger on a $250-$280 billion acquisition. The EU can't afford to counter it. To put that sum into perspective for the US economy: that's merely 2.x years of operating income for Google. There's no scenario where the people of Greenland reject that $250b offer in a free vote.

Where is that money coming from? The defense budget is 800B - this is a major budget item just throwing money in the trash along with most of your alliances

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#388

Post by GeoAtreides »

metabagel wrote: post #269
drysine wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>being occupation forces That's literally what they are. American forces appeared in Germany in 1945.

They’re not occupying forces. There is a status of forces agreement between the two countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_forces_agreement

So the occupier and country occupied signed an legal agreement making the occupation officially legal?

De facto and de jure are two very, very different things...

(not saying the US forces are occupying Germany, just commenting on op's logic)

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#389

Post by alephnerd »

cvwright wrote: post #323
alephnerd wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Functionally, us not participating in defense coordination mechanisms is the equivalent of leaving NATO, as we would not be able to unify response.

By that logic, the European members who didn’t meet their defense spending obligations for years and years have already left NATO too.

That's the implication the administration is trying to force.

Basically, we are leaving Europe because we no longer have a commitment there and concentrate on Asia and the Americas.

This has been a stated policy objective of ours for almost 2 decades now.

Re: Statement by Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,UK

#390

Post by onli »

metabagel wrote: post #269
drysine wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>being occupation forces That's literally what they are. American forces appeared in Germany in 1945.

They’re not occupying forces. There is a status of forces agreement between the two countries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_forces_agreement

You are right. But it's a matter of perspective. In the mainstream perspective those bases are based on contracts and a method of mutual security. But there is indeed also the perspective in Germany that those bases are factually occupying forces and given their history the option of having those bases removed have been limited.

And there is a kernel of truth in it. The USA likely wouldn't give up Ramstein under any circumstances safe the German military mobilizing against them, the base is (was?) too important for the US. When Trump invades Greenland we will see this play out (how the base stays active and Germany is powerless to stop that).

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