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Roam 50GB is now Roam 100GB

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Re: Roam 50GB is now Roam 100GB

#381

Post by yencabulator »

fooker wrote: post #272
amelius wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe someone can build a service that translates webpages into "reader mode" format, which you can then consume on mobile devices with low bitrates.

This is a pretty promising vector for man in the middle attacks.

So is Manifest v2 ad blocking and plenty of people are screaming about killing that one.

For a proper HN technical-solutions-only response, have the rewrite functionality reside in a WASM module cached locally and run in the browser, with a transparency ledger proving everyone sees the same WASM modules. This way any MitM attempts by the service are reproducible and undeniable.

Re: Roam 50GB is now Roam 100GB

#382

Post by coryrc »

Analemma_ wrote: post #288
coryrc wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How about bigger touch targets? And lose even more precious space for reading? No thanks. Zoom in before you vote if it's a problem for you. You might say "how about drag up/down?" but then you can't scroll reliably on the page.

The Octal app has better touch targets on mobile and manages to show more text at the same time. Here’s a pair of screenshots from my iPhone of the top of the “Is Rust Faster than C” comments. [0] is mobile Safari, [1] is Octal. The app shows more text. This is exactly what makes me nuts about this whole debate: the complete lack of empiricism or nuance. People would rather just have their knee-jerk outrage about Jav…

The font is bigger in your first example, the text uses twice the space (or your screenshots are different resolutions?). I greatly prefer it because it's easier to read. You could zoom out if you want, I guess.

But you could move the arrows to be to the right of the [-] and space them out a bit, sure, so they're easier to touch.

Re: Roam 50GB is now Roam 100GB

#383

Post by danpalmer »

anthk wrote: post #369
danpalmer wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd disagree that that is usable today. A few days ago I had some network trouble that restricted me to about 350kbps, although stable without much packet loss, and a lot of stuff just didn't practically work. At that speed, loading images and resources on webpages within timeout limits is hard. Many web apps don't work, or degrade enough that you wouldn't want to use them. Also what do we actually use the web for? A…

I lived with 2.7KBPS - News, phlogs, Wikipedia, translation services -> Gopher or Gemini, gopher://magical.fish and gemini://gemi.dev plus gopher://sdf.org and Bongusta Phlogs. It's magical. - IRC or IRC+Bitlbee -> IM, Jabber, IRC, most protocols - Email -> Mbsync+msmtp + mutt. Caching helps there - Usenet -> Slrn+Slrnpull, it has tech groups, caching and there's a web news discuss group too - SSH -> Mosh

This is fine if you're the sort of person who knows about IRC, is satisfied with content on Gopher, etc.

But most people depend on contacting family and friends via WhatsApp/Messenger/etc, they depend on YouTube for entertainment and education, their TV is increasingly online, they read their newspaper on a website with images, etc.

It's a privilege, and a lifestyle choice, to be able to live on 2.7KBPS.

Re: Roam 50GB is now Roam 100GB

#384

Post by fc417fc802 »

yencabulator wrote: post #381
fooker wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a pretty promising vector for man in the middle attacks.

So is Manifest v2 ad blocking and plenty of people are screaming about killing that one. For a proper HN technical-solutions-only response, have the rewrite functionality reside in a WASM module cached locally and run in the browser, with a transparency ledger proving everyone sees the same WASM modules. This way any MitM attempts by the service are reproducible and undeniable.

v2 is not a MitM concern (but it is a malicious code concern). Before quibbling about this consider that if v2 qualifies as a MitM concern then pretty much every other piece of software also does. That isn't in keeping with the spirit of the term.

The outrage is threefold, because there is no viable alternative, because it infantilizes users, trampling their agency, and because it clearly serves corporate interests at the expense of the user.

As to your proposed solution - the rewriting needs to happen on a separate device in order to avoid pushing extra data across the network. If you're already self hosting that service then there's no need for a transparency ledger.

Re: Roam 50GB is now Roam 100GB

#385

Post by yencabulator »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #384
yencabulator wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So is Manifest v2 ad blocking and plenty of people are screaming about killing that one. For a proper HN technical-solutions-only response, have the rewrite functionality reside in a WASM module cached locally and run in the browser, with a transparency ledger proving everyone sees the same WASM modules. This way any MitM attempts by the service are reproducible and undeniable.

v2 is not a MitM concern (but it is a malicious code concern). Before quibbling about this consider that if v2 qualifies as a MitM concern then pretty much every other piece of software also does. That isn't in keeping with the spirit of the term. The outrage is threefold, because there is no viable alternative, because it infantilizes users, trampling their agency, and because it clearly serves corporate interests a…

It's auto updating JavaScript maintained by some unknown that can rewrite html on any page, how is that not an MitM risk?

The html itself is rarely a lot of data, most things in this space remove or resize images etc.

Re: Roam 50GB is now Roam 100GB

#386

Post by yerushalayim »

ssl-3 wrote: post #268
jader201 wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but also navigation and accessibility Counterpoint, HN is notoriously hard to use on mobile (still better than some, but it's clearly designed for desktop, and not super responsive). But agreed, that's independent of the slim nature of the webpage (which is still possible with a good mobile UX).

I've found HN pretty easy to use with both Chrome and Firefox on Android, at default zoom, with my own pocket supercomputer. Sometimes I manage to hit the updoot or downdoot buttons incorrectly, but that error happens so rarely that I'm amazed at my success. Responsiveness is very good, as well. Loading is lightning quick in all but the very worst network environments. It's not perfect by any means (the text box I'm…

Reader mode is nearly a must for me. Our eyes need a break.

HN in reader mode would be a such hugh blessing!

Re: Roam 50GB is now Roam 100GB

#387

Post by kalleboo »

gregsadetsky wrote: post #318
kalleboo wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Japan you have consumer (with voice) plans for Unlimited 32kbps $1.60/mo (I guess this makes more sense for IoT?) Unlimited 300kbps $4/mo Unlimited 1.5Mbps $6/mo https://mineo.jp/price/#mysoku

Those are dreamy! But also, Japan has incredible density. I was imagining a no-support, pure esim play. I mean. Even calling it brainstorming is an exaggeration haha

Density has it's own costs, finding real estate and backhaul for towers in a city is much harder than picking up some farmland for cheap and slapping up microwave backhaul.

What Japan did was make it extremely easy to start an MVNO - the regulator essentially forced the telcos to allow it, so there are standard contracts with published rates.

The downside is the way the pricing was done is pretty dumb, MVNOs pay by the megabit for a fixed uplink capacity. So during the noon rush where everyone wants to watch YouTube while eating lunch all the MVNO performance, even somewhere the towers are idle, goes to crap, since they only bought uplink for the 98% case.

Re: Roam 50GB is now Roam 100GB

#388

Post by ethbr1 »

yencabulator wrote: post #380
ethbr1 wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got a pet theory that old.reddit is actually codified in legal language somewhere as "must always exist." Otherwise, I can't believe Reddit is actually keeping it around out of the goodness in their cold, dead corporate heart.

Let's try this one: Reddit is selling "we'll let your AI training scrape our data" and have lazily implemented it by just pointing at old.reddit.com.

Possibly, but doesn't old.reddit predate the LLM craze?

Re: Roam 50GB is now Roam 100GB

#389

Post by anthk »

danpalmer wrote: post #383
anthk wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived with 2.7KBPS - News, phlogs, Wikipedia, translation services -> Gopher or Gemini, gopher://magical.fish and gemini://gemi.dev plus gopher://sdf.org and Bongusta Phlogs. It's magical. - IRC or IRC+Bitlbee -> IM, Jabber, IRC, most protocols - Email -> Mbsync+msmtp + mutt. Caching helps there - Usenet -> Slrn+Slrnpull, it has tech groups, caching and there's a web news discuss group too - SSH -> Mosh

This is fine if you're the sort of person who knows about IRC, is satisfied with content on Gopher, etc. But most people depend on contacting family and friends via WhatsApp/Messenger/etc, they depend on YouTube for entertainment and education, their TV is increasingly online, they read their newspaper on a website with images, etc. It's a privilege, and a lifestyle choice, to be able to live on 2.7KBPS.

You can use whatsapp over IRC->Bitlbee and reading newspapers at least for text mode. Privilege? more like the reverse. There are phone data plans for $10 that upon finishing your monthly data, you got throttled like that until the next month.

And in my country people did crazy stuff in order to ilegally watch soccer matches in cable TV's, such as writting magnetic deco cards with an electronic PICF84 based tool.

That compared to using Lagrange and gemini://gemi.dev to read the local newspapers and bookmark them in order to avoid typing down the https:// URL over and over, it's lke going for a Ph.D instead of joining a local library.

People isn't that dump, it's just lazy. And, sadly, uninformed.

In the infamous blackout in Spain, I was the only one in the bus that could fetch the news reliabily over Gemini due to the low bandwitdh. The rest were waiting over and over.

And after that everyone got a pocket radio tuner just because. Something I was just doing over decades too because FM and AM radio will actually work anywhere.

But the web doesn't offer a nice degradation. In the blackout, they just kept sending the full raw data, literal thousands of cookie trackers, JS scripts and the mandatory ads. You at least have https://text.npr.org and https://lite.cnn.com. My country? They just pushed the web SPA's and OFC they set no OPUS stream (something every smartphone understands from at least 2012) with a smaller bitrate.

Re: Roam 50GB is now Roam 100GB

#390

Post by permo-w »

whimsicalism wrote: post #296
permo-w wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're all over this thread seemingly trying to get someone to argue this point with you, or perhaps just to prove how nuts Elon is, as if people don't already know that, for example, from the time he did a nazi salute in public to a crowd

i posted 4 times in this thread (once more than you), half of which were actually defending Elon Musk's contributions/companies. take care

all of my comments were on different subjects
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