Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

xdaforums.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

381–390 of 643 posts

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#381

Post by malux85 »

thisislife2 wrote: post #372
ploxiln wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think, practically, everyone will need at least a cheap-ish android or iphone, perhaps $300 (and a new one every few years ...), to be their locked-down "agent" for using financial or government services. It's not for you, it's for the government/banks, it is their agent for talking to you. Kinda weird, if you think about it. But that seems to be the way it's heading.

Or ... just don't install the apps and use the browser to do your banking.

Assuming the browser has feature parity. I was visiting my parents over Xmas and my dad couldn’t make a payment because the number of saved payees was capped to 100. There was literally no option to delete a payee in the website, the only way we found was to install the app, authenticate, and do it in there. It’s happening already.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#382

Post by pessimizer »

Helmut10001 wrote: post #106
Fiveplus wrote: post #82

So, if you cannot cryptographically prove to a remote server that your device is running essentially unmodified, vendor-signed software, you are locked out of the economy? The irrefutable part here is that the security model works. Locking down the bootloader and enforcing TEE signatures does stop malware. But it also kills user agency. We are moving to a model where the user is considered the adversary on their own…

As I mentioned in another post: By 2026, you'll need two phones. My current setup: 1) An unmodified iPhone SE (2022 model) with OS support until 2032. This runs all my authentication, banking, health, etc. It is in airplane mode 99% of the time unless I need it. 2) The second is a Pixel 9a with Graphene OS for daily use, routing and internet access. This is expensive, but I found it to be the only viable solution to…

> As I mentioned in another post: By 2026, you'll need two phones. My current setup:

Cheers, maybe by 2027 unattested devices won't be allowed on the internet. It's not a solution. The problem didn't exist a few years ago, the idea that it will not continue to its inevitable conclusion within a few years without real solutions is laughable.

Wait until Graphene is classified as a hacking tool and Estonia convinces the EU to fine a million Euros a day any company providing services to host its website. Wait until, "in the spirit of reconciliation," the US goes along with it, too.

Wait until unattested desktops aren't allowed on the internet.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#383

Post by pie_flavor »

hephaes7us wrote: post #342
sneak wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not an evil at all. For 99% of people who aren’t “computer people”, when we gave them that, we got the Bonzai Buddy and 47 other malware toolbars installed. Did we forget 2003 already? App sandboxing and system file integrity is one of the most beneficial security features of modern computing, and the vast majority of people have no desire to turn it off. You can buy rootable phones. People overwhelmingly choose…

The evil is enshrining other people's choices into law, unnecessarily. There was never going to be anything preventing non-technical folks from buying iPhones. They can and should have what they like. Why should there be a law that forces that same compromise onto anyone who can only afford a single device and needs to use it to access their bank?

Because when you don't do this, people get scammed out of money.

If there is a series of buttons you can press to circumvent the anti-scam measures, then the scammers simply walk you through pressing those buttons. If you cover them in giant warning labels the scammers simply add explanations into their patter. The buttons must physically not exist, for gullible people to not get scammed out of money.

The next response will be 'well maybe we shouldn't accommodate them'. They vote, and there's more of them than you.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#384

Post by riedel »

thisislife2 wrote: post #372
ploxiln wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think, practically, everyone will need at least a cheap-ish android or iphone, perhaps $300 (and a new one every few years ...), to be their locked-down "agent" for using financial or government services. It's not for you, it's for the government/banks, it is their agent for talking to you. Kinda weird, if you think about it. But that seems to be the way it's heading.

Or ... just don't install the apps and use the browser to do your banking.

Does not work anymore for many banks in Germany. I have 2 accounts that require me to have different second factor apps installed. For one bank I would have to open a separate account with a debit card to use hw tan generator. For the other AI would have to switch bank account after the regulators banned SMS and indexed paper TANs.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#385

Post by Zak »

Aspos wrote: post #99
elric wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no laws banning this in any European countries that I'm aware of, except maybe Hungary? It's just banks being stupid, consumer-hostile, and anti-competitive.

Well, I've built a bunch of mobile banking apps and we did detect if the phone was rooted, was in dev mode, etc. and it is not because we were "stupid, consumer-hostile, and anti-competitive". If someone steals the secrets from a rooted phone and steals customer's money the bank is on the hook, so banks do everything they can to minimize this risk. There is no way to store customer's secrets in a PC browser securely,…

I understand (but vehemently oppose) the argument for root detection. What risks to banks see from having developer settings enabled?

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#386

Post by craftkiller »

fn-mote wrote: post #348
ryandrake wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are enough non-shitty banks and credit unions, at least in the US, that you should be able to easily switch banks to a better one. They have no moat.

The most is ATM access if you want that.

FWIW my US bank works on GrapheneOS and they refund all ATM fees, so you can use any ATM you want. The only issue I've run into with them is they have a Zelle integration which is only available on the phone, and on GrapheneOS it just loads to a blank white screen. But that seems to be Zelle's fault. The bank is Charles Schwab if anyone is looking for a currently-compatible-with-GrapheneOS bank in the US.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#387

Post by xeonmc »

qwertox wrote: post #374
a456463 wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And a full on fight against ownership of stuff you paid, right to repair something you own with your own money, and general computing access.

Phones are no longer ours. A bit like bought ebooks, games, movies,and the like. we just payfor the right to use them. ok the phones we can keep, so we pay a lot for the hardware, but the OS: not. They like to advertise it as part of the phonev but it' not. The little surveillance machines.

If buying is not owning, pirating is not stealing.

Piracy isn’t merely a virtue, but a moral imperative, an obligation to uphold civic freedom.

It is immoral not to pirate. It is everyone’s duty to do their part in normalizing and encouraging piracy.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#388

Post by ThePowerOfFuet »

dizhn wrote: post #93

Don't mess with Vietnam please. My phone's CSC is set to Vietnam to enable call recording. I love that feature but I don't want to lose my banking apps.

GrapheneOS allows call recording, period. Most banking apps work, too.

https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compa...

https://grapheneos.org/usage#banking-apps

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#389

Post by cestith »

lawlessone wrote: post #338
cestith wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fact it’s the government who cares suggests whose interests the law is serving. Viet Nam is a pretty authoritarian country right now, and it loves the ability to track the activities of citizens.

it's for banking apps specifically though. Anyway it's not like they're the UK and have age ID's for their internet lol

Authoritarian governments have an interest in knowing where and how you spend your money, and from where you got it.

Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app

#390

Post by pas »

wolvoleo wrote: post #341
sneak wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not an evil at all. For 99% of people who aren’t “computer people”, when we gave them that, we got the Bonzai Buddy and 47 other malware toolbars installed. Did we forget 2003 already? App sandboxing and system file integrity is one of the most beneficial security features of modern computing, and the vast majority of people have no desire to turn it off. You can buy rootable phones. People overwhelmingly choose…

> App sandboxing and system file integrity is one of the most beneficial security features of modern computing, You can have sandboxing and system integrity while still giving the user overrides. But hey this is not Google and Apple's business model because it makes you less dependent on them. And it interferes with their sweet 30% rent-seeking app stores. Mobile security works this way not because it's best for us b…

> You can have sandboxing and system integrity while still giving the user overrides.

How? What kind of overrides? You mean that Safetynet could still report attestations?

I have no idea how it works, but doesn't it require a chain of trust, starting from a known boot image, then every process that can write to arbitrary memory needs to be a known image? (And even that might not be enough if there are ways to dynamically exploit them.)

Post reply on HN