Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

barchart.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

381–390 of 527 posts

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#381

Post by chucky_z »

efitz wrote: post #81
okaram wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Porque no los dos? He was a super-rich guy, who had had too many people telling him he was a genius for way too long (reminds you of anybody?), and so was way too sure of himself. A bunch of his ideas were crazy, which doesn't mean others weren't trying to dismiss his views.

> A bunch of his ideas were crazy Which ones? btw young idealistic me voted for Perot in 1992

All shoe sizes should only be small, medium, and large. He really did have a lot of very ridiculous ideas. He also had a lot of extremely good ideas and incredible understanding of socioeconomic conditions.

His book “United We Stand” with modern context is quite amazing considering it came out in the early 90s.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#382

Post by ctoth »

ericjmorey wrote: post #254
closeparen wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A line cook makes no more burgers per hour, a hairdresser delivers no more or better haircuts, and a daycare worker watches no more children concurrently than they could have 25 years ago. Meanwhile the Magnificent 7 have emerged. Baumol effects might have raised wages a bit, sure. How could the relative positions of these workers not fall as all these tech-enabled and scale-enabled neighbors come on to the scene? Th…

The line cook is relatively as valuable as they were in the past, they're just being out leveraged by people asserting a self-centered entitlement mentality.

I didn't realize that self-centered entitledness was a new phenomena?

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#383

Post by triceratops »

tharkun__ wrote: post #212
jonhohle wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone paying for a family on a marketplace bronze plan, that’s a bargain! I think our premiums will exceed $20K this year. With all of the medical group consolidation, all of the wait time woes our Canadian friends always complained about are the reality here now as well. So I’m paying more than anywhere else on the world and have to wait 6 months for a PCP appointment. We have the worst of both worlds.

I'm curious to compare this to other countries that have state owned/mandated insurance and are so far still mostly covering everything and which are always touted as "superior" to the US, who "have the most expensive health care system". Can't use Canada as OHIP et. al. don't cover much and the same employer tied insurance scheme as in the US exists and is necessary. An example of a country with "good healthcare" an…

> Can't use Canada as OHIP et. al. don't cover much and the same employer tied insurance scheme as in the US exists and is necessary

False. From what I know, only prescription drugs, dental, and vision are not covered. And since Americans frequently drive to Canada to buy prescription drugs, we can assume that's not as big a burden as in the US. But hospital stays, surgeries, lab testing, imaging, doctor visits, vaccines are all fully covered.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#384

Post by tracker1 »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #312
0xbadcafebee wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Manufacturing jobs bring the entire supply chain of the manufacturer with them. Not really... Manufacturing today is a global process and the entire supply chain is usually spread around the world. One example for a cotton shirt ( https://apps.npr.org/tshirt/ ): the cotton is grown in Mississippi. It's then shipped to Indonesia to spin the cotton into yarn. The yarn is shipped to Bangladesh for rough cut and sewing…

For return to happen you need to have a creative economy, not an extractive economy. Offshoring happened for the simple, dumb reason that it's cheaper and more profitable. For all the rarara about "America", shareholder patriotism extends exactly as far as quarterly returns. If that means selling out ordinary US workers - do it. Give me the bag. What offshoring revealed is that the US is not a culturally integrated c…

I think if the wealth class wants to avoid communism and heads on pikes in the longer run, they should absolutely start to be more concerned with community and move beyond the tunnel blinders of the next quarter over long term stability.

This goes for govt doing anything but working to ensure domestic production and dual/multi sourcing of essential infrastructure.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#385

Post by gaoshan »

If maximizing profits is the primary thing that matters (and in the US, amongst other places, it is) then nothing will change about this. It's also why unions are so opposed by certain groups and it's why we have such an obscene wealth imbalance. Shareholders and profits matter more than people.

Martin Luther King Jr. expressed it well when he said, "when machines and computers, profit motives and property rights, are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, extreme materialism and militarism are incapable of being conquered,"

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#386

Post by naasking »

array_key_first wrote: post #374
nickff wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main cost driver in medical care is provider (nurse, doctor, etc.) wages, not bureaucracy or drug prices (though they're frequently cited). I have tired of posting sources for the statistics, but they are very easy to find.

From what I've heard from doctors online, a large chunk of their time is basically spent just coaxing insurance. They waste time figuring out what they can and cannot bill, tailoring that to every patient, and constantly keeping records of everything. I think, for many doctors especially in small practices, treatment is a minority of their time. Obviously, paying someone 300K a year to sit on a 1 hour peer to peer ex…

Exactly. You can believe the "main cost driver in medical care is provider (nurse, doctor, etc.) wages" all the live long day, until you realize they too spend a lot of their time dealing with bureaucracy. The true cost of bureaucracy cannot be accounted for by simply tallying the number of bureaucrats and their salaries.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#387

Post by MisterTea »

ryandrake wrote: post #273
mothballed wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The jobs also generally suck. I've worked a wide array of blue collar jobs and manufacturing I always found some of the worst, even worse than stuff like general labor building houses or working on fishing trawlers in the Bering sea because at least that stuff wasn't nearly as rote. You stand at a machine doing the same fucking thing over and over. Do one thing wrong, your finger gets chopped up -- you think that sou…

Out of all the many industries out there, I don't understand why we keep glorifying and romanticizing manufacturing and trying to "bring it back." I've also worked a few of these jobs and you're right: THEY SUCK. Depending on what you are manufacturing, it can be boring, stressful, stinky, physically taxing, or dangerous. And most of them, even the highly skilled ones, don't pay well. For the sake of our own society,…

> For the sake of our own society, we should be getting rid of these jobs, not adding them.

So let me get this strait. You think these dangerous, monotonous jobs are bad for "our own society" so the best thing for "our own society" is to export these dangerous jobs to another society "own own society" doesn't give a shit about. Wonderful.

I can't believe how ignorant and callous people can openly be.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#388

Post by mlsu »

itsyonas wrote: post #38
blitzar wrote: post #3

He is free to give back some of his $150bn anytime.

I do think that this is at the heart of the problem. The issue is not an overall lack of wealth, but how it is distributed. This is not going to change, no matter how many data centres or factories are built in the US. Ultimately, all the wealth will still end up in the hands of a select few. Not to mention that we are already exceeding a number of planetary boundaries, which endanger humans. The ever-growing demand…

The distribution is a problem, but not for the reasons people think. At these amounts (billions) the money stops being human-scale and starts to become civilization scale. You can accomplish big things with 150 billion. Things like: installing a gigawatt of solar, building a 1000km HVDC line, etc.

The issue is that when that 150 billion is concentrated into one person's hands, it tends to be inefficiently allocated. This is the argument against central planning; it's inefficient, it does not actually go where it would maximally benefit society.

We have, with the amount of wealth inequality, essentially re-invented central planning. It's arguably worse today, because rather than giving central control to a worker's council which is nominally accountable to regular people, we've given it to Larry Ellison who is going to build yet another datacenter for AI, instead of spending it on energy or manufacturing capacity.

My home electricity bill has doubled since AI came out. That is my evidence that this concentration of wealth is egregiously misallocating capital. It is a civilization-scale self-own. Countries that allocate capital properly will wipe the floor and we are beginning to see that play out.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#389

Post by Rzor »

codegeek wrote: post #48

This doesn't make sense. Nvidia literally has offices all over the world including India (a country that gets the most flak for offshoring). So why now ? Suddenly, "offshoring bad" ? I don't buy it. I think it is more about AI data centers. I could be wrong.

Either political posturing, or he sees the United States beginning to rapidly accelerate ($$$) certain sectors or companies as part of a strategic development effort, much like China often does. Possibly a mix of both.

Re: Jensen: 'We've done our country a great disservice' by offshoring

#390

Post by tracker1 »

bflesch wrote: post #289
StopDisinfo910 wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They extended their operations there because Biden lured them with insane subsidies. Don't commit the mistake of thinking Trump politics is a rupture from what came before when it comes to how the US treats Europe. It's been economic aggression after economic aggression from both parties since Obama. Different styles, same core ideas.

Good point. "Free trade between free countries" is a nice concept but unfortunately Americans have cancelled that subscription.

What countries, beyond the US, are you speaking to? I mean, I'm interested in what countries you're talking about that don't leverage tariffs and other restrictions to favor domestic industries in those countries.
Post reply on HN