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UK House of Lords attempting to ban use of VPNs by anyone under 16

alecmuffett.com

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Re: UK House of Lords attempting to ban use of VPNs by anyone under 16

#381

Post by qcnguy »

Gud wrote: post #378
matheusmoreira wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An illegitimate underground scene running on life support, using old unlocked computers which are a finite resource they will eventually run out of. Utterly depressing... We used to be free... If this passes, the only strategic move available is to somehow develop the ability to make our own computer processors in our garages. Billion dollar fabs are single points of failure and they will be exploited, subverted, reg…

When did the UK use to be free? Seems to me this is a cultural issue that runs deep. You are his majesty’s loyal subject, like it or not, and more importantly, you are a subject of his bureaucracy. The US works in a similar fashion, except the deep state has slightly different excuses to exist. I work extensively in the UK(past 5 years, I’ve worked there maybe two years in total). Nothing gets done without endless ap…

The obvious answer (that HN hates) is that the right can stop them. The only party in the UK against the Online Safety Act is Reform. The only party that wants to shrink the state is Reform. Every other party is supportive of this kind of thing. This makes sense because every other party in the UK is left wing.

This isn't a problem of one country's specific culture. Australia and Canada are doing the exact same thing, the Democrats would absolutely do the same thing if the libertarian Constitution weren't in their way. The rest of the EU is doing the same thing. It's a left vs right thing.

In fact everywhere is going the same way except the USA, because the USA has a constitution that encodes libertarian values (a minority position) in such a way that it requires a supermajority to overturn.

Re: UK House of Lords attempting to ban use of VPNs by anyone under 16

#382

Post by u_sama »

baazaa wrote: post #36

On a related note, they built their digital ID so that third parties could verify attributes (it's NOT just a single-service login across government + a linking ID across government services, which is how it was sold by the BBC). They're pretty close to completely de-anonymising the internet for UK citizens. Say they introduce an Australian-style social media ban for under 16s, then requires all social media to link…

Wait are you baazaa9, I love your writings and specially your analysis of bureaucracy

Re: UK House of Lords attempting to ban use of VPNs by anyone under 16

#383

Post by mschuster91 »

lijok wrote: post #70
mschuster91 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe go after Discord then for doing nothing meaningful against abusive, should we not? And if that means that Discord has to shut down... well, okay, if that's the price? An organisation that doesn't care about the impact on its host society is nothing more than a parasite or cancer and should be treated as such. (Besides: if you're aiming at stuff like groups of kids bullying other kids into suicide or self harm -…

I'm not debating whether they should ban VPNs for minors with you. I'm providing a counter statement to your ill-conceived thought that this is "all manufactured fear by organized groups aiming to rip our rights to pieces".

> I'm providing a counter statement to your ill-conceived thought that this is "all manufactured fear by organized groups aiming to rip our rights to pieces".

What is making Discord different from the real world? Do we ban kids from going to school because they could get bullied there?

Yes, sure, some content we decide to age-gate in real life... but hell. Our parents perused the VHS porn stash of their parents. Their parents wanked off to Playboy magazines. It has all been bullshit from the start.

Re: UK House of Lords attempting to ban use of VPNs by anyone under 16

#384

Post by qcnguy »

pixxel wrote: post #373
Duwensatzaj wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You already gave up your arms. Why are you surprised they’re coming for anything else they want?

The US was tested for tyranny during Covid, election interference, and BLM burning down cities. You sat at home, utterly impotent. You're gonna stop VPN bans? Please.

This post shouldn't have been dead. It's right. There's an American meme that sidearms create freedom. When has that actually been true in practice in the past 100 years?

For HNers who just automatically flag anything right wing and want left wing examples instead, right now leftists are outraged by deportations. And a tiny number have tried to assassinate ICE agents using sniper rifles, indeed. But it's making no difference, not even when they're protected by corrupt local prosecutors and juries. They have even accidentally shot migrants instead of ICE.

Where's the evidence that an armed population can resist tyranny, however you define it? Whether it's COVID or ICE, there's been no meaningful armed resistance.

The reason the US seems to be less totalitarian is purely because the constitution and the culture that supports it stops Congress from passing the same kind of restrictive speech laws the rest of the world has. If it weren't for the Constitution the Democrats would have already passed lots of speech laws under Obama and Biden, then used them to harass and illegalize the Republicans to maintain a majority. For example they'd have banned Trump's campaign on the basis that it encouraged "hate" against immigrants, and then they'd have forced big tech to do what Europe is now trying already, to strip all anonymity from the internet so they can harass random individual voters who disagree with government policy online, Germany style.

What protects America isn't guns, it's respect for the voting thresholds in the constitution and a right-leaning SCOTUS.

Re: UK House of Lords attempting to ban use of VPNs by anyone under 16

#385

Post by u_sama »

Defletter wrote: post #314
ipaddr wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For you the issue is a left right issue and if the opinion matches yours it is acceptable and seen in a positive light but if it's the other side you have no tolerance. You will never have free speech just controlled speech with alternating people in power. Which I think is a worse outcome because the people in power will never allow controlled speech against them.

> For you the issue is a left right issue and if the opinion matches yours it is acceptable and seen in a positive light but if it's the other side you have no tolerance. When you remove all content and context from what is actually being said and done, then yes, this is fairly accurate, but it's also an entirely meaningless framing. But you have fallen into the trap of thinking I only support protests that I agree w…

Someday we need to kill this myth, the wave of fascisms that appeared in Europe (Italy, Germany, Spain, Romania) are more of a cultural and economic reaction to the destruction of the Great War and not due to "unlimited free speech".

Free speech does not amplify or cultivate hate, it lets it fester in dark areas until it explodes when a crisis happens (which is what is happening currently).

Free speech and open discourse serves as a pressure valve release and self-correcting mechanism where by impopular or "untolerable" but common opinions have to be dealt with i.e the migration backlash in Europe

Re: UK House of Lords attempting to ban use of VPNs by anyone under 16

#386

Post by bluescrn »

idle_zealot wrote: post #221
bluescrn wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And who gets to decide which platforms count as 'social media'? This is a problem with Australia's attempt to ban kids from it, where there's some surprising exemptions from the restrictions.

> And who gets to decide which platforms count as 'social media'? The voting public via their elected representatives, as with literally all laws.

The very people with the most to gain from silencing dissidents or suppressing certain viewpoints given the power to restrict access to selected social media platforms while encouraging the use of others.

None of this recent crackdown on social media is really about 'protecting the kids', is it?

Re: UK House of Lords attempting to ban use of VPNs by anyone under 16

#387

Post by qcnguy »

Barrin92 wrote: post #136
oncallthrow wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, which grass roots group exactly campaigned for this? Which party’s manifesto was it on?

In Britain in particular? The NSPCC, Molly Rose Foundation, IWF among a bunch of others. 70% of Brits are supportive of the online safety act[1], it's been supported by Conservatives, Labour and the SNP. There's simply no data in favor of the argument that this is a minority position or even some kind of conspiracy. Child safety is (not very surprisingly) usually a voter driven concern. You think banning people from…

YouGov panel always returns huge numbers for any 'safety' question that doesn't match data collected from other sources. It's a panel poll, the people being polled are weird and unrepresentative.

Re: UK House of Lords attempting to ban use of VPNs by anyone under 16

#388

Post by qcnguy »

bamboozled wrote: post #363
admash wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative is to refuse to delegate the formation and development of the character of our children and culture to automated systems and regulatory policies. Engage with your children on topics that matter. Discuss the pros and cons of various viewpoints and political platforms with your friends and neighbors, colleagues and fellow bus-riders. We, ourselves, are the psychosocial immune system for society, and if…

Similar to the arguments about climate change and how we as individuals should tackle it. Not going to happen sorry. "If only we would just self organize into communities to protect childen..." ok.

Yes because self-organizing communities have never appeared anywhere in history.

Just because you are afraid you can't win arguments doesn't mean you should get to impose your view by violence. Which is what you advocate for, when you say the government should impose your views on the population.

Re: UK House of Lords attempting to ban use of VPNs by anyone under 16

#390

Post by Gud »

qcnguy wrote: post #381
Gud wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did the UK use to be free? Seems to me this is a cultural issue that runs deep. You are his majesty’s loyal subject, like it or not, and more importantly, you are a subject of his bureaucracy. The US works in a similar fashion, except the deep state has slightly different excuses to exist. I work extensively in the UK(past 5 years, I’ve worked there maybe two years in total). Nothing gets done without endless ap…

The obvious answer (that HN hates) is that the right can stop them. The only party in the UK against the Online Safety Act is Reform. The only party that wants to shrink the state is Reform. Every other party is supportive of this kind of thing. This makes sense because every other party in the UK is left wing. This isn't a problem of one country's specific culture. Australia and Canada are doing the exact same thing…

Your obvious solution is wrong, though. The right wing is just as eager to implement a police state.

The correct answer is decentralisation of power, and put the government back in the hands of the people. That means frequent voting(multiple times a year), by an educated population.

Works well in Switzerland.

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