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BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

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Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#381
post #8

I think it continues to be under-appreciated how much of a lead Tesla still has in EVs. Even BMW can't make something that is practical. First people said "competition is coming" for about a decade. Now the competition has finally half arrived, but it's still so far behind. Perhaps the closest is BYD, but most BYD drivers would prefer to be driving a Tesla.

I have a theory about EVs - they don't allow much engineering range.

To have a broadly usable car, you need at least 50+ kWh battery, 100kWish fast charge, and basically almost everything you need in a big car. If you don't have it your car is not really usable as the main car.

Motors are small and efficient so they are not big cost drivers.

Small cars, such as 'cheap' B-segment cars still need all this stuff. If you look at the weight of something like a Renault 5, you find its not lighter than a Model 3. The manufacturer still pays for all that stuff, but the car's supposed to be cheap so they cant pass on the cost.

But in a small car, you have packaging problems with having to fit the battery pack, meaning you need to build them taller and draggier - that means your highway range decreases, and the big weight means big (and compact) crash structures, which again are more expensive.

In contrast, in a Model 3, you can make the pack thinner, design a more aerodynamic shape, have the big roomy frunk as a crash structure.

Your extra cost ist like tens of centimeters of steel and glass, but customers will happily pay more because its an upmarket car.

You can't really go beyond that, because the acceleration and torque is crazy even at the base level and at high speeds your range will still suck.

This basically means imo that the Model 3 and Y are at the ideal intersection of what the technology's good and bad at, and market positioning.

That's why I don't think Tesla will make a C-segment car.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#382

I don't know how "German engineering" became a badge of honor. Probably from the people who continually roll new leases every 2 years. Even 25 years ago working on German vehicles compared to the Japanese counter-parts was a harrowing endeavor. Germans are excellent at making cool flashy features...that rely on 16 moving parts that cost $700 each, and need to remove the engine exhaust manifold to access one screw to…

Nowadays, when I hear "German Engineering", I internally translate it to "German love of complexity and bespoke/manual manufacturing".

The extreme depreciation of BMWs and Germany's loss to the Allies in WWII are both aspects of the same phenomenon; that fact is very funny to me.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#383
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That reminds me of the Popular Science garage hint from 1963, explaining how to easily dispose of used motor oil: Dig a hole in the ground and fill it with fine gravel. Pour in the oil, and it will be absorbed into the ground before your next oil change. https://books.google.com/books?id=myADAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA166#v=on...

Different times indeed. The Swedish government created this informational video in 1964 on how to properly dispose of your trash when at sea https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t03saJVFkv4 . Apparently the trick is to make the trash sink rather than float.

You can also see in the video how much clearer the water was then. Very sad.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#384
post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure it depends on market, but I also know 100% that if they will certify the battery as safe, and then you get electrocuted when entering your car because the battery was not safe - they will be on the hook, in all developed markets. No one else, that cares about people safety, do the same thing for under $100. Even Tesla, that almost completely disregards any safety - be it "Full Self Driving" or "let's just ch…

Given that I've tried to hold BMW to their warranty and was shafted I would not bet on that.

There's a difference between BMW ignoring their warranty and who gets found liable during the wrongful death lawsuit after the mechanic gets electrocuted due to poor/unsafe EV design.

I'm sure BMW would love to not be liable in those cases if they could just decide not to be liable, but inspections and fuses presumably turn out to be cheaper than the settlements they'd otherwise be paying.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#385

I don't know how "German engineering" became a badge of honor. Probably from the people who continually roll new leases every 2 years. Even 25 years ago working on German vehicles compared to the Japanese counter-parts was a harrowing endeavor. Germans are excellent at making cool flashy features...that rely on 16 moving parts that cost $700 each, and need to remove the engine exhaust manifold to access one screw to…

Germans are also famous for how hard they work, working a grueling 1350 hours per year, compared to freeloading lazy Greeks, who merely work 2000.

It’s about productivity, not about the raw amount of hours.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#386
post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germans are also famous for how hard they work, working a grueling 1350 hours per year, compared to freeloading lazy Greeks, who merely work 2000.

It’s about productivity, not about the raw amount of hours.

I remember on reddit this was pointed under some article once, and there was a consensus about how West Europeans are just more productive.

Then 2 weeks later there was an article about how much money do Americans make per hours worked, and everyone was falling over each other pointing out how flawed the methodology was.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#387

It’s funny how I extrapolate car design sessions in my head based on software design sessions. I sold my bmw after 15 years of multiple bmws because their design is so poor for maintenance. I had cooling system problems that required hours of labor to get to just to replace a plastic part that cost $5 where an aluminum one would cost $7. It seems to me that bmw was designing for best case scenarios where everything g…

Ask a car guy and they’ll tell you that German car makers have been known to be be maintenance money sinks for 40 years. But German car makers are really quick to add new technology. They were quick to add ABS, fuel injection, complex suspensions, etc. But have you ever tried to make something you built to easy to maintain? You have to reroute everything, redesign your layout, add access ports, switch fittings… my go…

BMWs at least up to the mid-2000s are really cheap and easy to maintain. Parts are pennies, service documentation is readily available, and they're reliable enough that they last a long time with basic maintenance.

Compared to stuff like Toyotas or Hondas, they practically cost nothing to keep on the road.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#388

It’s funny how I extrapolate car design sessions in my head based on software design sessions. I sold my bmw after 15 years of multiple bmws because their design is so poor for maintenance. I had cooling system problems that required hours of labor to get to just to replace a plastic part that cost $5 where an aluminum one would cost $7. It seems to me that bmw was designing for best case scenarios where everything g…

My last 4 cars were BMW. I love the way they drive, but ...

I think they are optimized for the EU leasing market. 4 years, 120.000km. If you buy one for long ownership and want more out of them (they can most certainly do 400=500k km reliably), you have to take care of them from day 1. You change the maitainance schedule (which by default is set to lowering fleet lease costs and who cares beyond that), learn about and do preventive maintainance (such as replacing the entire cooling around 120k km), stricktly use BMW oil (for the additives) unless you are realy knowledgeable about it, and invest in a decent fault scanner (to lnow what is going on and not just run up expensive maintainance bills at the BMW shop).

If you think that's all too much hassle, just lease them short term or buy something else.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ask a car guy and they’ll tell you that German car makers have been known to be be maintenance money sinks for 40 years. But German car makers are really quick to add new technology. They were quick to add ABS, fuel injection, complex suspensions, etc. But have you ever tried to make something you built to easy to maintain? You have to reroute everything, redesign your layout, add access ports, switch fittings… my go…

BMWs at least up to the mid-2000s are really cheap and easy to maintain. Parts are pennies, service documentation is readily available, and they're reliable enough that they last a long time with basic maintenance. Compared to stuff like Toyotas or Hondas, they practically cost nothing to keep on the road.

> Compared to stuff like Toyotas or Hondas

Don't get this. I had a CR-V from 1996 (over 300k), sold it a few years ago, and can still see it cruising around the town. My previous Toyota Yaris was pretty much unkillable, just like a RAV 4 or a 1998 TLC.

Re: BMW PHEV: Safety fuse replacement is extremely expensive

#390

It’s funny how I extrapolate car design sessions in my head based on software design sessions. I sold my bmw after 15 years of multiple bmws because their design is so poor for maintenance. I had cooling system problems that required hours of labor to get to just to replace a plastic part that cost $5 where an aluminum one would cost $7. It seems to me that bmw was designing for best case scenarios where everything g…

What you're describing is the stereotype for "rich west europe" engineering culture. Every now and then you see it leak out into some other environment, like Toyota and their pull-apart ball joints that "aren't an issue" because "the user will just service it on schedule" where it reliably causes problems in all sorts of dumb ways (because like anything else, designing stuff to within an inch of it's life takes pract…

Here is an American example, Fox suspensions. Fox is one of the main producers of bicycle suspensions. Great products, but check their service intervals for a fork [0], 125 hours.

Now if you practice mountainbike you may ride your bike 1 to 5 times a week. Let's say you only ride once a week for 4 hours: 125 / 4 = 31, you would need to service your fork every 31 weeks. Add some few more rides and you have to service the fork twice a year.

Each service easily costs $150 if done by a bike shop. If you do it yourself (plenty of tutorials on youtube), you need expensive special tools, oil, special grease and spare o-rings and seals easily costs 30-40$ for every service. And you have to properly dispose the old oil.

[0] https://tech.ridefox.com/bike/owners-manuals/2979/fork--2025...

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