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Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

seattletimes.com

381–390 of 470 posts

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most people in the US a car is a daily necessity so it’s very difficult to avoid that telemetry gathering.

We aren't at the point where it's unavoidable though. Even if we assume that its impossible to dodge random onstar/sirius bloatware crap that probably tracks you, you can definitely still buy a car that doesn't have a 5g wireless modem, 360-degree webcam coverage, mandatory automatic software updates, and ass-warming seats locked behind DRM that forces you to have an online account linked to your credit card.

There is no new vehicle produced today that doesn’t track you. Not a single one.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is better than Flock's "Transparency" Report. I live in WA, ex-Flock employee, and in my County, half of the agencies with Flock agreements are not on their Transparency portal. And at the very least - why can't you search the Transparency Portal? You have to try each and every agency name. Let's try https://transparency.flocksafety.com/ ... NoSuchKey The specified key does not exist. index.html [redacted] [red…

> And at the very least - why can't you search the Transparency Portal? You have to try each and every agency name. Was it different in the past? It seems like it'd be beneficial to Flock and their customers to make obtaining this information as obtuse as possible, while maintaining the vaguest appearance of "transparency". If they could charge you $10 per search, they probably would. As an aside - can I ask why you…

> As an aside - can I ask why you left Flock? I assumed that the people who would've wanted to work there would be fully invested into the idea. What changed your mind?

The Flock of my recruitment process would be a lot less problematic. There was discussion of the obvious, the surveillance "state". But everything was a high ground of ethics and legality, ideas were supposedly run through groups to discuss "not just whether we could, but whether we should", protecting individuals whose data was collected by Flock but had no safety or LE purpose, retention, sharing controls ...

... the reality was much more "mask off". "Eliminate all crime, using Flock". Very Airbnb'ish. "We know your jurisdiction doesn't allow you to share this data. It's not our job to enforce that on our platform; if you're sharing it, that's not our concern - you'll still have access to all the tools to do so." Sales worked with Agencies who weren't allowed to gather data themselves, weren't directly allowed to partner with Flock for cameras, were asked where they saw or believed they'd most want said cameras, and Flock would aggressively work with businesses, HOAs, other government entities in those areas, and get them onboard, and then go back to the Agency saying "Hey, guess what, we know you're not allowed to collect this, but these customers are, and you're able to share their data."

That didn't sit well with me - there was nothing actively illegal Flock were doing, but they were openly helping Agencies flout the spirit of laws constraining them while staying within the letter (in the above examples, HOAs and others would often get deeply subsidized, at least, installations, knowing that Flock would be able to get a bigger contract with an Agency that would otherwise have no over very limited means of working with them).

These things, coupled with Garrett's "vision" that, he emphasized repeatedly, was his literal vision, "Eliminate all crime with Flock", were too much (and I think lead to some of their even more troublesome initiatives now, like "Have AI look for potential suspicious vehicle movements, even without a reported incident, and have it alert officers to go investigate in realtime", with talk of that being extended to conversations and audio).

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>they eventually start another campaign to allow use of the tools that they now have access to for less serious crimes. Don't forget the part where the useful idiots cheer because "I hate street racers and package thieves" or "I hate cults and drugs" depending on the decade

People aren’t useful idiots for wanting to avoid being victims of crime. They’re rational. Stop trivializing the big negative impact street racing and theft have on people.

They are if they use it to rationalize giving government effectively arbitrary power over them for barely any decrease of crime that victimizes them.

Stop acting like they're using the dragnet in the interest of the citizenry. They're not.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#384
post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> so that criminals can't just flee to another jurisdiction and escape justice. I think it's a fair deal so long as you can't escape to Utah/Idaho/Colorado when you realize the dystopia you've created isn't the kind of place you want to raise a family.

Great idea: make it a crime to move away from Flock-laden neighborhoods once you put your name on a petition to have them installed. See how quickly they short-circuit.

Some generalized version would work great for to keep people from peddling all sorts of short sighted stuff. I have no idea how to do it. This sort of "must have skin in the game" criteria was what the founding fathers were trying to do with the property owning requirement (but that was so imperfect they started undermining it pretty much before the ink was dry).

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#385
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The appointed federal judges in the US are nominated by a political President, and confirmed by a simple majority in a two-party-system Senate, and serve for life. They have (unsurprisingly) become quite political, with either party appointing judges who'd be likely to judge in their favour. This is not at all comparable to appointed judges in other countries, where politicians usually don't have any input on the app…

Some governments reject separation of powers. Some countries have politicians select judges openly. Some countries' politicians worked around or subverted the systems intended to prevent politicians influencing judge selection. Appointment is the most common method of selecting lower- and higher-court judges in common-law countries, and for supreme and constitutional courts in civil- and mixed-system countries. In mo…

I suppose it is quite impossible to design a system that cannot be abused. And a judge is at the end of the day a man or woman who is part of society.

If the public wants to make life miserable for a certain class it will be done. Democracy and the rule of law only exists by the will of the people.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Garrett, the founder, has what even he calls a quite literal, not aspirational/visionary/metaphorical, aim that "We want to eliminate all crime."

Dear God I hate this particular breed of techbros. These people don't give a damn about democracy, about human rights or anything else other than their stab at entering the history books in a "positive" light...

The tech bros however get to have drugs, prostitutes and unethical medical experimentations!

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#387

I'm in the PNW and they put Flock cameras up in my area recently. Nobody likes them (libs or cons), and we've seen some rather creative approaches to uh...disabling them. One person took a pipe cutter to the mount and spirited the whole unit away, another apparently fired a shotgun slug through it, somebody else looks like they used it to relieve their anger problems with a metal pipe. Flock cameras, America's bipart…

I feel these camera's is a symptom of how anxious the US overclass is.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#388
post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ten years ago or so, someone started filing daily public records requests for footage from all 911 dispatches (among other things). I know someone who until very recently worked for a major city's police department. He said there were people who would request every video they could think of, and it was his team's job to scrub through the video and blur/block out faces of children and things like that. He said his tea…

If it's a major city, why isn't their FOIA team larger? Signed: A frequent requester.

It is a very major city. The vast majority of people on the planet have heard of it.

I can only speculate that it wants to put more cops on the street, instead of paying civilians to do paperwork.

The real world isn't like TV. Like everyone else, police departments have to work within a budget. People don't just magically appear from off-screen to do more work.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The public safety issue has been ignored and denied (and "defunded") to the point where measures like this now appear necessary.

That seems like the general mantra that's currently being adapted to justify all sorts of power grabs and expansions of surveillance all over the world. "We would really rather not do this, honestly! But the crisis is just too pressing, and has been left unaddressed for too long. You all just couldn't behave, and now we're going to have to do it the painful way. This is just what is needed, it's the natural outcome."…

Of course, it's the same political class that allowed the crisis to become pressing.

Re: Redmond, WA, turns off Flock Safety cameras after ICE arrests

#390

I'm in the PNW and they put Flock cameras up in my area recently. Nobody likes them (libs or cons), and we've seen some rather creative approaches to uh...disabling them. One person took a pipe cutter to the mount and spirited the whole unit away, another apparently fired a shotgun slug through it, somebody else looks like they used it to relieve their anger problems with a metal pipe. Flock cameras, America's bipart…

I feel these camera's is a symptom of how anxious the US overclass is.

I feel worrying about security cameras is primordial mammal fear of being tracked and eaten. Like fear of vaccine poisoning, a vestige of long ago threats.
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