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Some people can't see mental images

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Re: Some people can't see mental images

#381

Post by NonHyloMorph »

retrac wrote: post #307
Twirrim wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been experimenting over the past year or so, and keep trying to visualise things. Part of this spun out from the fact that I can dream (I rarely seem to, or at least remember them), but when I do, I remember that it was a vivid real thing. I actually feel like I'm closer than ever to getting towards visualisation. I've gone from a rock solid "zero" to "solid feeling, occasional split-second flash of something "…

When I want to close my eyes and distract myself, I've been visualizing the banana from the cover of that Velvet Underground album. (Not sure why I settled on that!) I can rotate it. I can peel it. With practice it has gotten larger and I can shift it away from the centre of the visual field. But I can't make it seem yellow.

Is it velvet?

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#382

Post by Jaynes »

Vestiges of the bicameral mind pre consciousness. The cartesian theatre replaced the external "voice" or volition that gave impetus. Think Old Testament "voices" which were external to the hearer and the need of external laws as in tablets, eventually replaced by internal thinking and Laws on the heart which are internal. Old to New, rough to smooth, external objective to internal subjective thinking and mind mapping

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#383

Post by teamonkey »

phantasmish wrote: post #372
floor2 wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-aphantasia person, this just seems like a really, really bad "test". Famously, there's a psychology experiment where a person in a gorilla costume walks through the middle of a scene and beats their chest before walking off the other side of the screen, but people who've been given a challenge of tracking a ball being passed around will completely miss the gorilla. They'll laugh in shock on watching the same…

I believe both that aphantasia may be a real thing, and that the vast majority of discussion about it online is plagued by so much imprecision and variety in use of language that it can be hard to say how many people who think they may have it, actually do. Consider attempts in this very thread to compare conscious visualization to visualization in dreaming. Someone who isn't in a critical frame of mind or doesn't kn…

As mentioned elsewhere, researchers have done brain scans while asking people to imagine something, and for the majority of people the visual cortex lights up, but for a small number of people the visual parts of the brain are not so active.

This is very much a real thing, but largely goes unnoticed because it doesn’t really affect anything, except for people going about their lives thinking that the word ‘visualise’ is a metaphor.

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#384

Post by lordnacho »

tstrimple wrote: post #362
lordnacho wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I have another question further down to another guy about how he imagines sex, I guess you can answer that as well. But also, how do you solve math problems? Often the you need to draw a graph and look at some crossing points. For me, I can conjure up a video in my mind similar to 3B1B, and I use that to think about the problem. It can even get complicated enough that it would take me a while to draw on paper.…

Not the person you asked, but as someone who also cannot see mental images at all I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "imagines sex". I don't really imagine sex and self-gratification is usually not worth it without visual aids. The times I pull from memory, it's more about the overall experience rather than visualizing anything specific. As far as math goes, I've always been pretty good at it. I generally don't t…

> The times I pull from memory

What does memory even mean though, if you cannot recall the video of what happened? I find it hard to fathom you can recall an experience without replaying the sensory impressions you got. It's almost definitional, isn't it? To remember something that happened to you is to be able to re-experience it.

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#385

Post by nofriend »

the_af wrote: post #378
nofriend wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you cannot picture what they are describing, you cannot get aroused. This is your thesis. In the first place, the existence of erotic literature doesn't prove this is true, like you claimed. I would furthermore claim that it calls this assumption into question. If the goal was imagery, the more straightforward approach would be to draw an image. If that wasn't possible, you would instead describe the image you w…

> In the first place, the existence of erotic literature doesn't prove this is true, like you claimed Everything we are discussing in this comments section must be understood in an informal way. I obviously did not "prove" anything; I don't think anything can be proven about this anyway. Whenever I say "proof", read my statements as "[in my opinion] this is strong evidence that [thing]". It's a figure of speech: "thi…

> Whenever I say "proof", read my statements as "[in my opinion] this is strong evidence that [thing]".

read my statement as "it isn't any evidence at all"

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#386

Post by k__ »

bigyikes wrote: post #170
k__ wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. When I'm fully awake, the mental images are more like someone attached a new camera with a field of view that ends at the edges of the object/scene I try to generate.

Okay, forget everything outside that field of view in your real vision. If you could crop your real field of view somehow to just the photo in question, then would it be as though nothing changed? (Like, I get that things outside the phone image would change, but does the image your imagining change? Does the sensation change?)

The details get better or near photorealistic when I'm about to doze off.

When I wide awake, parts of the image are "gone" when I'm not focusing them.

Also, the sensation of seeing in my mind does feel different. It's like there is some different place where that image is showing up.

Even if I imagine the mental image to overlay with my real vision, it feels like it's "added" somewhere between my conscious mind and the outside/real world.

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#387

Post by the_af »

nofriend wrote: post #385
the_af wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the first place, the existence of erotic literature doesn't prove this is true, like you claimed Everything we are discussing in this comments section must be understood in an informal way. I obviously did not "prove" anything; I don't think anything can be proven about this anyway. Whenever I say "proof", read my statements as "[in my opinion] this is strong evidence that [thing]". It's a figure of speech: "thi…

> Whenever I say "proof", read my statements as "[in my opinion] this is strong evidence that [thing]". read my statement as "it isn't any evidence at all"

Well, that's easy: your statement is wrong.

Re: Some people can't see mental images

#388

Post by nevertoolate »

altruios wrote: post #361
nevertoolate wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that much more people can do it than unable to do it (aphantasia)

I have a suspicion that aphantasia - in some cases - is something that can be trained out of. The mind is a powerful thing.

Might be possible but then you lose aphantasia :)
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