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Apple M5 chip

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Re: Apple M5 chip

#381

Post by almostgotcaught »

llm_nerd wrote: post #362
fooblaster wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MLX doesn't use the neural engine still right? I still wish they would abandon that unit and just center everything around metal and tensor units on the GPU.

MLX is a training/research framework, and the work product is usually a CoreML model. A CoreML model will use any and all resources that are available to it, at least if the resource fits for the need. The ANE is for very low power, very specific inference tasks. There is no universe where Apple abandons it, and it's super weird how much anti-ANE rhetoric there is on this site, as if there can only be one tool for an…

> the work product is usually a CoreML model.

What work product? Who is running models on Apple hardware in prod?

Re: Apple M5 chip

#382

Post by thenaturalist »

mumber_typhoon wrote: post #44

The M5 MacBook Pro still gets the Broadcom WiFi chip but the M5 iPad Pros get the N1 and C1X (Sweet). All in all, apple is doing some incredible things with hardware. Software teams at apple really need to get their act together. The M1 itself is so powerful that nobody really needs to upgrade that for most things most people do on their computers. Tahoe however makes my M1 Air feel sluggish doing the exact same task…

Don't kidd yourself: Planned obsolescence is real.

Apple has a higher duty to their shareholders than to their customers.

Not hating on Apple, just stating the hard economic truth.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#383

Post by maxk42 »

For my use case I need MSL to support fp64. Until that happens I don't care what hardware changes they make: I'm not going to be filling racks with M5s and they're not producing something I can use to even tinker with AI with in my spare time. Apple has lost the AI war before it even got started IMO.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#384

Post by Damogran6 »

ironman1478 wrote: post #325

It's surprising to me macs aren't a more popular target for games. They're extremely capable machines and they're console-like in that there isn't very much variation in hardware, as opposed to traditional PC gaming. I would think that it's easier to develop a game for a MacBook than a Windows machine where you never know what hardware setup the user will have.

There's a cost/value calculation that just doesn't work well...I have a Ryzen9/rtx3070 PC ($2k over time) and my M4 Mini ($450) holds it's own for most all normal user stuff...sprinting ahead for specific tasks (Video CODEC)...but the 6 year old dedicated GPU on the PC annihilates the Mini in pushing pixels...You can spec an Apple that does better for gaming, but man, are you gonna pay for it, and still not keep up with current PC GPUS.

Now...something like minecraft or SubNautica? The M4 is fine, especially if you're not pushing 4k 240hz.

Apple has been pushing the gaming experience for years (iPhone 4s?) but it never REALLY seems to land, and when someone has a great gaming seperience in a modern AAA game, they always seem to be using a $4500 Studio or similar.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#385

Post by HDThoreaun »

unsupp0rted wrote: post #106
littlecranky67 wrote: post #11

And here I am, selling my Macbook M4 Pro to buy a Macbook Air and a dedicated gaming machine. I've tried gaming on the Macbook with Heroic, GPTK, Whiskey, RPCS3 emu and some native. When a game runs, the performance is stunning for a Laptop - but there is always glitches, bugs and annoyances that take out the joy. Needles to mention lack of support from any sort of online multiplayer, due to the lack of anticheat sup…

I can't sell my MacBook Pro because the speakers are so insanely good. Air can't compare. The speakers are worth the extra kilos.

I have never once used my laptop speakers. Not saying youre wrong but its crazy how different priorities for products can be

Re: Apple M5 chip

#386

Post by throwuxiytayq »

neogodless wrote: post #353
lazypenguin wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I’ve seen, Apple is to blame here as they usually make it harder to target their platform and don’t really try to cooperate with the rest of the industry. As a game developer, I have to literally purchase Apple hardware to test rather than being able to conveniently download a VM

I'm not a subject matter expert, but I do find it a little odd to read the second half of that. I'd expect, beyond development/debugging, there's certainly a phase of testing that requires hardware that matches your target system? Like, I get if you develop for consoles, you probably use some kind of emulation on your development workstation, which is probably running Windows. Especially for consoles like XBOX One or…

> Like, I get if you develop for consoles, you probably use some kind of emulation on your development workstation

I don’t think anybody does this. I haven’t heard about official emulators for any of the mainstream consoles. Emulation would be prohibitively slow.

Developers usually test on dedicated devkits which are a version of the target console (often with slightly better specs as dev builds need more memory and run more slowly). This is annoying, slow and difficult, but at least you can get these dev kits, usually for a decent price, and there’s a point to trying to ship on those platforms. Meanwhile, nobody plays games on macs, and Apple is making zero effort to bring in the developers or the gamers. It’s a no-chicken-and-no-egg situation, really.

Re: Apple M5 chip

#387

Post by [deleted] »

coffeeaddict1 wrote: post #379
shantara wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main roadblock for porting the games to Mac has never been the hardware, but Apple themselves. Their entire attitude is that they can do whatever they please with their platforms, and expect the developers to adjust to the changes, no matter how breaking. It’s a constant support treadmill, fixing the stuff that Apple broke in your previously perfectly functioning product after every update. If said fixing is even…

> an absolutely ancient OpenGL version I still don't get this. Apple is a trillion dollar company. How much does it cost to pay a couple of engineers to maintain an up to date version on top of Metal? Their current implementation is 4.1, it wouldn't cost them much to provide one for 4.6. Even Microsoft collaborated with Mesa to build a translation on top of dx12, Apple could do the same.

[deleted]

Re: Apple M5 chip

#388

Post by vayup »

mohsen1 wrote: post #87

First time seeing Apple using "AI" in their marketing material. It was "Machine Learning" and "Apple Intelligence" before...

I am sure by AI they mean Apple Intelligence:-)

Re: Apple M5 chip

#389

Post by llm_nerd »

almostgotcaught wrote: post #381
llm_nerd wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MLX is a training/research framework, and the work product is usually a CoreML model. A CoreML model will use any and all resources that are available to it, at least if the resource fits for the need. The ANE is for very low power, very specific inference tasks. There is no universe where Apple abandons it, and it's super weird how much anti-ANE rhetoric there is on this site, as if there can only be one tool for an…

> the work product is usually a CoreML model. What work product? Who is running models on Apple hardware in prod?

An enormous number of people and products. I'm actually not sure if your comment is serious, because it seems to be of the "I don't, therefore no one does" variety.
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