Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

bluewin.ch

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

381–390 of 655 posts

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#381

Post by ToucanLoucan »

dns_snek wrote: post #297
sillyfluke wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent described someone who went above and beyond the norm of other members in his community in his constant positive interaction with his neighbors, collegues, and former students. It is highly likely this kind of person would give a considerable shit if he knew he would become a nightmare for the same community. There may be others reading in the thread who also can relate to the personality of the teacher and…

There's a difference between "I don't want the disease because I don't want to become a menace to others" (what you're saying) and "I don't want the disease because it would make me lose social status" (what the original commenter said).

Either and or both?

I don’t want to go that way either. If I start losing my mind to Alzheimer’s or dementia I don’t want to slowly turn unrecognizable to those who love me, fuck that shit. Give me something suitable and I’ll do it my damn self if needs be.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#382

Post by HighGoldstein »

rolandog wrote: post #86
lordnacho wrote: post #3

I had an old teacher who died almost a year ago. Great guy, very sociable, knew everyone in the little town he lived in. Kept in touch with a lot of students. Good neighbour, friendly guy who'd talk to everyone. He got Alzheimers. He started forgetting stuff, and it frustrated him. He got caught driving dangerously, and cursed the doctor who took away his license. He argued with me about the state of some chicken he…

I read your comment and it strikes me as a cautionary tale that can be used by bad people to justify or push for eugenics: "they took him; they said he developed Alzheimer's" . As we're currently seeing happen: whatever is left unsaid in the body of the law can and will be abused by evil people to concentrate more power (even if the spirit of the law advocates for something kind). So, we have to normalize some sort o…

> I read your comment and it strikes me as a cautionary tale that can be used by bad people to justify or push for eugenics: "they took him; they said he developed Alzheimer's".

Isn't the point of eugenics to influence population genetic trends? Not a very effective strategy to kill people when they already have probably 2 generations of descendents.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#384

Post by __s »

rkomorn wrote: post #307
nicoburns wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> maybe a 16 year old who wants to end their otherwise healthy life might, 20 years later, be glad they didn't. Equally, they might spend decades of their life in misery wishing that they had been able to.

Sometimes I don't get why things get downvoted on here. What's downvote-worthy about this comment? It's in response to mine, and even though I don't really agree with it, I don't see what's so objectionable that it needs some sort of admonition?

Didn't downvote, but I think the writing has a flippant voice. In combination with an unpopular opinion I've been able to attract downvotes in the same way

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#385

Post by whatshisface »

wjnc wrote: post #379
dns_snek wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between "I don't want the disease because I don't want to become a menace to others" (what you're saying) and "I don't want the disease because it would make me lose social status" (what the original commenter said).

I am left wondering. Can’t people (in general) understand that Alzheimer’s changes a person fundamentally, irreversibly and forever until death follows? Many positive traits of personality disappear, the negative starts to dominate, I think mainly from fear and a subconscious awareness of what is being lost. That’s pretty much 101 of grieving when a loved one is struck with Alzheimer’s. The person has left. You conti…

Very few people would choose to be unpopular, and unfortunately this type of behavior is decided by brain function, things like depression, from the beginning.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#386

Post by jacquesm »

djaboss wrote: post #337
antegamisou wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Euthanasia in Switzerland ^ has been a notorious profitable practice for years, compared to the Netherlands where it's almost exclusively practiced on those with terminal debilitating disease. ^ Yes, it's "illegal" but it's effectively nulled if the means to it are made legal.

Then I do wonder why no company has come knocking to the door of the hospital room where I'm sitting right this minute waiting for my terminally ill mother to die. Because since years she's member of EXIT, the well-known Swiss institution that is providing assisted suicide services, and it would still take several weeks for us to jump through all the required paper and legal hoops to get the ball rolling. And now she…

Wow, what a situation. Strength to you.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#387

Post by mcdonje »

mft_ wrote: post #352
Thorrez wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Barbara Wagner [1]: >Her last hope was a $4,000-a-month drug that her doctor prescribed for her, but the insurance company refused to pay. >What the Oregon Health Plan did agree to cover, however, were drugs for a physician-assisted death. Those drugs would cost about $50. Randy Stroup [2]: > Lane Individual Practice Association (LIPA), which administers the Oregon Health Plan in Lane County, responded to Stroup's re…

It's a very odd take to think examples of insurance companies refusing life-extending treatment and instead offering assisted suicide indicates a problem with assisted suicide. Just to be clear: the insurance companies are the problem here; and more broadly this whole for-profit model of healthcare.

It's actually a good and relevant set of examples for the particular type of issue that was asked about. They didn't give any opinions for or against assisted suicide in general.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#388

Post by benlivengood »

I find it somewhat fascinating that the article has a giant "Suicidal thoughts? You can find help here:" footer.

I don't think it's a link to an assisted suicide/dying with dignity center.

Society's relationship with intentional end of life decisions is fraught, to say the least.

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#389

Post by [deleted] »

sarchertech wrote: post #95
1dom wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you’ve already made it to 90 with no major issues, you’re expected to make it to 95 and you could make easily live to 100. My wife’s grandad is 90 and he still lives alone, drives, plays golf nearly everyday, and regularly sees his 12 grandchildren and many great grandchildren. Counter-anecdote, my partners Granddad is 93. Age 90, we said the same as you. Now he's an old, rude, obnoxious liability - he's still g…

>I feel the desire to stay alive long enough to be a liability for yourself and those around you is a decision motivated by ego and fear, rather than compassion or logic. Everyone becomes a liability at some point. By that logic we should just go full Logan’s run and kill people as soon as they stop being productive. There nothing wrong with saying that you aren’t going to take extreme measures to preserve your life…

[deleted]

Re: Daniel Kahneman opted for assisted suicide in Switzerland

#390

Post by LorenPechtel »

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #201
sillyfluke wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I mentioned in a another comment, framing it as "how one is remembered" is leading to pointless tangents in this thread. The important point is this: are you causing emotional, psychological, physical distress in the real world to those you care about when you have this disease? Yes or no. That's what I care about. Whether they are able to remember me well despite that, or poorly because of that should be complete…

That’s irrelevant here. What is relevant is that we have a contempt for human life and a lack of charity. The teacher was not at fault for his condition. We should learn magnanimity. Sure, we can think about how the burdens of caring for our family can be lessened as they age, or how we may help reduce that burden for our family, but family does have the duty to care for its members, and to place such considerations…

This is not contempt for human life. It is a recognition that sometimes as the body deteriorates that the quality of life becomes negative.

I watched both of my parents deteriorate in the end. The morphine blotted out my father's ability to form long term memory, if it wasn't in front of him things were like they had been before so much morphine was needed. There can be no value in such "life".

As far as I'm concerned not allowing people to end the suffering is a form of sadism.

I suspect this thread will go like many have in the past: there are two camps. The first has never seen a bad death and has a lot of opposition to people choosing to end their life. The second has seen a bad death and a lot of people would choose suicide before reaching that point. If it is a contempt for human life that means people have contempt for their own life and that doesn't make much sense. I can look at myself: I have been dealt a presumably genetic killer, I saw what it did to my mother and I will not allow that to happen to me. Do I have contempt for my own life because I expect the end to be suicide?

Post reply on HN