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German government comes out against Chat Control

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Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#381

Post by dns_snek »

selfmodruntime wrote: post #380
dns_snek wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What percentage of German companies are owned and managed by its workers? What percentage are owned by capitalists, generating private profits? Are those numbers indicative of socialism or capitalism? > I recommend you read up on it a bit before making snarky comments on the internet. It's not a snarky comment. Regulation and welfare are requirements even in a capitalist economy, otherwise you have people dying on th…

> What percentage of German companies are owned and managed by its workers? This sentence does not apply because "social market economy" does not imply that companies should be owned by their workes. > What percentage are owned by capitalists, generating private profits? This sentence does not apply because a "social market economy" does not forbid the generation of profits. Profits are to be shared with the populace…

By your own definitions the USA isn't a capitalist economy due to regulations and their social welfare policies. If that's where you stand then any further discussion is going to be pointless.

>> You're essentially arguing that real capitalism hasn't been attempted yet

> I have not and you are free to cite where I did.

It's a straightforward logical inference. Your definition of capitalism excludes every capitalist economy that has ever existed.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#382

Post by jaapz »

onli wrote: post #344
selfmodruntime wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuclear, while not cheap, is clean . Coal and Gas account for 40% of Germany's energy production. All this endless talk about nuclear and whatnot, but other EU country's have been net neutral for CO2 emissions for a while now. A goal that Germany will never reach.

Nuclear is not clean. It causes toxic nuclear waste that will still be radioactive when our civilization ends, radiating the humans of the future. CO2 emissions are also still caused by it, and would grow when mining for nuclear material got harder by continued usage. > other EU country's have been net neutral for CO2 emissions for a while now. No EU country has achieved that, to my knowledge. It would be very surpri…

> CO2 emissions are also still caused by it, and would grow when mining for nuclear material got harder by continued usage.

Not nearly even in the same ballpark as setting fossil fuels on fire, or do you have any sources that show otherwise?

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#383

Post by baxtr »

codethief wrote: post #351
baxtr wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP but my guess: they were thinking administration in this case.

True, I guess I was thinking of the meaning of "government" in German for a second. Either way, though, if you consider "government" to include all three branches (executive, legislative, judicative), then there is really no way for the "the" government to take a stance on any issue, so "German government comes out against Chat Control" would be a rather nonsensical headline.

The original post linked says: "ruling party…". The term government was added by the poster I guess.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#384

Post by selfmodruntime »

gambiting wrote: post #362
selfmodruntime wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anywhere in Germany? Our pre-tax income is pre-pre-taxed. Before your employer pays out your wage, they are taxed for it as well.

Well, correct me if I'm wrong - but according to this random website I found in 5 seconds of googling: https://www.expat.hsbc.com/expat-explorer/expat-guides/germa... The highest band of income tax in Germany is 45% and obviously that's only on any amount over the threshold - so even if you make that much money your effective tax rate will be closer to 30% than 50%. So unless I'm missing something - I don't see how G…

> Well, correct me if I'm wrong - but according to this random website I found in 5 seconds of googling:

I will, because you are! Unfortunately, it's really easy because the German government applies a simple slight of hand. They call it a "gross employer contribution", which increases this band of income tax beyond the 45% you pay after the GEC. [1]

It works like this: As your employer is paying your wage, amount X, they pay half of your contribution to social insurance companies. This so called "employer contribution" is subtracted before you are paid out your gross wage, amount Y, which you see on your pay slip. Now, on amount Y, you pay the other half of social insurance fees and taxes. Then you get your net, amount Z. Most sources you will find online will only talk about Y and what is subtracted to get to Z. But your employer pays your full wage for what your work is worth, and they of course are not as nice to gift your one half of social insurance payments to you.

[1]: https://publikationen.bundesbank.de/publikationen-de/bericht...

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#385

Post by jaapz »

pembrook wrote: post #252
egeozcan wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AfD is classified as extreme-right not only in the eyes of the public, but also by German intelligence. Therefore I'd personally expect them to support potential tools that authoritarian governments would find useful.

[flagged]

> Why they are okay with calling out the far right but not okay calling out the far left I will never understand.

Lets skip over the fact that far left is being called out as well (especially by... the far right...).

The AfD is actually a extremist far right political party which has been steadily growing and growing. They are much more relevant to anyone living in germany than small extremist far left factions.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#386

Post by FirmwareBurner »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #326
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Given the UK's recent use of anti-terrorist legislation to arbitrarily classify a protest organisation as terrorists If your current laws allow for such oppressive abuse on the population without due process, then these new laws won't make things any worse for the people and you're fighting the wrong things here, if you think that taking citizenship away form registered ISIS members is the biggest problem.

I disagree completely. Citizens are protected by laws, such as the First Amendment, that are not applied to non-citizens (see the Julian Assange mess for details). If the government can designate a group of people as terrorists, and remove their citizenships for being terrorists, then they can additionally apply yet more tribulations on those people while not straying out of the legal protections afforded to citizens…

> You keep saying "ISIS" like it's some magic incantation that makes everything else OK. Try saying "any organisation the government disapproves of" instead, and see how that fits your mental model of what's acceptable.

Which other organizations who didn't kill or committed acts of violence to people in order to be wrongly considered terrorists by the government in the same vein as ISIS was?

>I think you'll agree that this would be a big f*ing problem.

It isn't. In most western democracies, if not all, gaining dual citizenship via naturalization is a voluntary privilege, not a right, that can always be revoked for crimes such as being part of a terrorist group. It's part of the contract you sign when you apply for citizenship. As it should be. That's who the law is targeting.

Your primary citizenship gained via by birth or by descent cannot be taken away from you almost anywhere.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#387

Post by jacomoRodriguez »

selfmodruntime wrote: post #330
jdiez17 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is the legally accurate description of the AfD [1]. Just like it is legally correct to call Björn Höcke a fascist. [1] https://medienservice.sachsen.de/medien/news/1071656

While I agree with this decision, it was not made by an independent court. Courts are often stacked with politicians in Germany.

Quote please

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#388

Post by FirmwareBurner »

anonzzzies wrote: post #270
somenameforme wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Authoritarian is often used as a pejorative strawman rather than as any particularly coherent concern. For instance Italy's Meloni was framed by the media, and people who still believe it, as being the next Mussolini, if not Hitler. In reality? Her time as leader has been largely inconsequential and relatively popular, especially contrasted against the leadership in places like Germany and France. In general it's not…

Globalist views didn't lead to positive results? Until very recent no one was complaining: everything was going up and everyone got better. Now it goed a little less and the underbelly starts whining. And of course people do believe misinformation. People who got a yearly raise over the inflation correction for a decade and now 'only' got inflafion correction whining its the globalist issue because some guy on tiktok…

>Until very recent no one was complaining: everything was going up and everyone got better.

The stock market, and your housing and investment portfolios going up, didn't mean that everyone was happy, just the asset holders like yourself and those in your bubble but you're not majority of the working population.

You need to learn to differentiate between "the stock market" and "the economy". Working class people can easily be getting poorer while the stock market is going up. So of course they're mad.

>People who got a yearly raise over the inflation correction for a decade

Huh? Who? Where? When? Maybe in your tech bubble but in the real world a lot of people's salaries haven't kept up with inflation, let alone consistency get raises ABOVE inflation. In France for example the average pension is now higher than the average salary.

>while I count my blessings and money globalist stylez.

Top 10%er can't understand why those bottom 90% without assets who got screwed by globalism and saw their jobs offshored and salaries and savings obliterated by inflation caused by endless money printing are mad at the globalism that caused this massive wealth transfer from the working class to the upper asset owning classes.

You can't make this up. The sheer ignorance of reality of most people and the "fuck you I got mine" attitude is shattering. No wonder young people are flirting with communism.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#389

Post by modo_mario »

onli wrote: post #313
angry_octet wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- All your fellow citizens keep voting for said welfare state/pension system (which is undoubtedly pro-Boomer and has unsustainably low retirement ages and large benefits). - The lack of energy security is because the Red/Greens convinced everywhere except France (go Framatome!) to give up nuclear. I wonder why resource rich Russia would push such an outcome... - Europe needs to spend its savings to get nuclear going…

Nuclear energy is very expensive and does not necessarily provide energy security. You just have to check on the energy usage in France during the summer, when the nuclear power plants had to be shut down repeatedly now. Pushing nuclear power would neither provide reliable nor cheap energy. The route forward is solar, hydro, wind and batteries.

Yet it used to be very cheap. In some places it still is cheap whilst being much safer than in the past. Meanwhile the requirements for it and the processes it has to abide by are kafkaesque. Not in a double down on security way. Just plain nonsensical.

I have heard so many stories from outside and people workin in it. Things like considering refabricating the same lightbulb from some now non existant company from the 80's because that one got listed and is certified and the process to go trough to allow a new one is too cumbersome and the light went out in the toilets of some irrelevant sidebuilding. So you get a lightbulb that costs an insane amount.

Or here in belgium the greens pushed some new tests to detect microfisures deep in a ridiculously thick vat that isn't security critical that would have been there since fabrication and which nobody else in the world checks for and they shut down the place for it when found. Anything to validate their own theory that nuclear is too expensive whilst planning for new gas plants.

Meanwhile the plant in france that was shut down is because they didn't want to have an ecological impact on a nearby nature reserve. Something that indeed wasn't accounted for decades ago. At the same time one manages to have such plants running in Saudi Arabia?

Additionally Germany has spend untold amounts more on it's renewables. It still hasn't linked it's own damn grids, put strain on infrastructure and prices abroad... and those same investments won't go for nearly as long. A good part of that green wave investment already needs replacing. All whilst necessitating fossil fuel production because that capacity figure that people hold up means jack shit when it's not what they actually produce in summer and those panels in berlin produce not even a fraction of that capacity in winter.

Re: German government comes out against Chat Control

#390

Post by jacomoRodriguez »

selfmodruntime wrote: post #343
indigo945 wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The OP claimed that people's homes got raided for "daring to insult the ruling class", your source claims that people's homes got raided for posting extremist racist speech online. Unless you believe in some ridiculous conspiracy where ZE JEWS CONTROL ZE BANKS, this has absolutely no relation to your ability to insult the ruling class: Black people and Muslims are not "the ruling class". And if you do believe in such…

Your comment has been debunked countless times. This man's home was not raided for his antisemitism (which is really damn bad!) but for calling a guy an idiot [1]. I suggest you stop spreading lies. [1]: https://www.br.de/nachrichten/bayern/nach-schwachkopf-post-p...

Please don't paint an - given wired and unjust - incident as the norm and not as am exception. Extrapolation from one local incident to Germany is unfree is like extrapolation from one politically motivated murder, that a country is in a civil war...
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