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Top Programming Languages 2025

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Re: Top Programming Languages 2025

#381
post #178
post #75

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HTML is a declarative programming language. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declarative_programming#Domain...

If HTML is a programming language, why not SVG? If SVG is a programming language, why not PNG? Is your image viewer just an interpreter executing PNG code? Maybe being a programming language is a spectrum...

Yes, if you go down this road then the equivalence of code and data means that everything is a programming language.

Re: Top Programming Languages 2025

#382
post #373

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We run mypy with `--strict` mode in CI, which means it only passes if we have type hints and if they are correct, or if we have added `# type: ignore[code]` for places where the errors are reported. And the type hints and behaviour are specified as part of Python, so it's kind of baked in. It's just that the actual type checker is not part of CPython, though Mypy is considered the reference implementation. We have qu…

SonarQube/Checkstyle/Kotlin/Scala sugar > Mypy sugar

Type hints and their behaviour are part of the Python language. Kotlin and Scala is not Java. I did not know that checkstyle + SonarQube adds static null safety to Java, but I appreciate that you will share a citation that it adds static null safety. I think everyone coding Java should really learn to use this so they don't create null pointer exceptions.

Re: Top Programming Languages 2025

#383

Anything short of a big AI winter is not going to move Python from its top spot. As Python has become the first choice of output code for LLMs its dominance is only going to grow.

Is Python really the first choice of output code? I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't know the answer and I don't know where to look to find out. I would have assumed it might be JS and more specifically React -- isn't that what you often get if you ask an LLM to "make an app that does such-and-such"? (Experimental anecdata: I just asked Gemini to write an app and it gave me a single HTML file with embedded JS,…

I tried it with some basic data structures and the order was: Python, Java, C++, Javascript.

Re: Top Programming Languages 2025

#384

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Oh dear. Using AI for something you don't understand well is surely a recipe for disaster and should not be encouraged.

On the other hand, one can see it as another layer of abstraction. Most programmers are not aware of how the assembly code generated from their programming language actually plays out, so they rely on the high-level language as an abstraction of machine code. Now we have an additional layer of abstraction, where we can instruct an LLM in natural language to write the high-level code for us. natural language -> high l…

Assembly is generally generated deterministically. LLM code is not.

Re: Top Programming Languages 2025

#385
post #343

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I think the issue here is that people working in fintech don't seem to come across these systems much, if at all - if you know one specifically, please tell us.

It's still there at the accounting/backend level. Automated Financial Systems Level 3 and it's replacement Vision are commercial loan systems. LVL3 is pure cobol. It has been recently deprecated but there are many banks who own the code and are still self hosting it, along with it's IBM green screen support. Vision is a java front end in front of an updated cobol backend. When your reputation is based on your reliabi…

No, we are not afraid of our own systems. The idea that there is some fabled computer system which everyone is too scared to touch doesn’t exist (I work in payment processing). There are levels of controls way outside these systems which provide these safety nets (e.g settlement / reconciliation controls).

If the cobol is still there, it’s not due to risk. If anything, the cobol is a much higher operational risk than replacing it.

Re: Top Programming Languages 2025

#386

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> There are more people writing PHP and Ruby than HTML? Intuitevely I'd say yes. In most jobs I've been in, the ratio of backend/system devs to front end devs has been from 3:1 to 20:1 depending on the size. Provided I'm on the backend side and would choose companies accordingly, but still. Even for web first services, there will be a flurry of people who won't touch a line of html/rendering.

But how much PHP code does exist, which does not also produce HTML? I think that's the whole point of most PHP code.

An awful lot.

Imagine a PHP backend providing an API for an app. The only HTML ever produced will be the admin backend, and perhaps auth forms for special cases. The surface of the API will produce objects serialized to JSON, and the vast majority of the PHP will be business logic to talk to external services and do what the service is paid for.

Some might not like the language, but whole businesses will run on PHP, with a dedicated react or next.js frontend that only talks to the PHP via API.

Re: Top Programming Languages 2025

#388

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Ruby was super hyped 10 years ago. Now all the hype-based programmers are on to TypeScript and Rust... Ruby is IMO at a nice level now; able to avoid some of the worst ideas that hype based programmers like to inflict on people, but still popular enough...

I have heard from multiple sources that Ruby is still very popular in the start-up ecosystem in Japan.

From what I've seen it's popular for startups in general. I'm using it for mine... More YC companies use Rails than you'd expect relative to it's "popularity". And yeah, in Japan Ruby is homegrown tech and the community seems pretty big there.

Re: Top Programming Languages 2025

#390

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I work in Fintech, and we use Python with type checking. It works like a charm. Safer than Java.

It's been years since typing was added to Python, and many people still underestimate it. You're right; Python with strict type hints is more type-safe than Java and Go. It even has features like pattern matching and proper enums, both of which Go lacks. The only issue is that some libraries (not many!) are still untyped, so you may need to write wrappers or stubs occasionally. But that applies to a small and decreas…

You should give Julia a go, can be written completely static if desired (not as static as rust of course, but compared to python it’s miles ahead). Can be made fast, very fast. AOT compilation with trimmed executables is coming in 1.12
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