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Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

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Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#381
post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand why we always assume bad faith. I wish more companies were like Cloudflare actually - trying to balance the need of revenues while trying to do good for internet and open source as a whole. This is quite simple and history bears it out: you can't rely on a for-profit corporation to operate in any other manner than optimizing shareholder value. When VC money is flowing, you see things that look li…

> you can't rely on a for-profit corporation to operate in any other manner than optimizing shareholder value. I would like to understand where this breaks down. Would a for-profit individual be more reliable? Would a non-profit? At which point does quality deteriorate?

I think Public Benefit Corporation (PBC) are a way to try and solve that problem.

I recently switched to Kagi and their Orion browser, and that's when I learned about PBCs.

A PBC legally takes a triple mandate, the first is just as any for-profit corp, to maximize shareholder value, the second is to the benefit of the stakeholders, and the last can be anything they write down when they register as a PBC. The Delaware law says:

> The board of directors shall manage or direct the business and affairs of the public benefit corporation in a manner that balances the stockholders’ pecuniary interests, the best interests of those materially affected by the corporation’s conduct, and the specific public benefit or public benefits identified in its certificate of incorporation.

If they fail at any of these mandates, you can sue them.

That means they are still for-profit, but also can't decide to favor profit over their other mandate or change their mind. Their other mandate being stakeholders interests, like users, as well as the explicitly stated benefit. For Kagi, that benefit is:

> Kagi is committed to creating a more human-centric and sustainable web that benefits individuals, communities, and society as a whole, with a transparent business model that aligns the incentives of everyone involved.

Now it's not all roses, Anthropic I learned is another PBC. Their benefit is:

> the responsible development and maintenance of advanced AI for the long-term benefit of humanity

Which is quite vague, and can be taken in many directions.

But overall, it's much better than normal corporations, because here they are legally obligated to care about stockholder, stakeholder, and some additionally specific "public benefit".

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#382
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why we always assume bad faith. I wish more companies were like Cloudflare actually - trying to balance the need of revenues while trying to do good for internet and open source as a whole. As a normal user with a few sites, I'm glad they provide what they provide to block bots, attacks and everything AI.

> I don't understand why we always assume bad faith. I'm already bombarded with cloudflare captchas when using Firefox, especially on Linux. Residential IP address. I'm suspicious of everything cloudflare is doing right now.

Same experience here. Debian Linux with Firefox or especially using BrowSH, is a depressing experience.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#383

> Omarchy 3.0 was released just last week with faster installation and increased Macbook compatibility, so if you’ve been Linux-curious for a while now, we encourage you to try it out! "If you're curious about trying Linux, why not install this obscure mouseless tiling TUI distro to guarantee you'll never attempt to use Linux again!"

Is people more open to try Linux if it's very different from Mac or Windows? Was the problem with other Desktop Environments that they work too similarly to them?

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#384
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't describe it as such, but that's not what matters here. Andreas Kling has been out championing the anti-anti-Charlie-Kirk cause on Twitter, so it's a safe bet that the Lundukish grassroots anti-wokes see him as one of theirs. Whether he has any juice with the right-wing VC set I don't know.

Kling's politics aside, he's also had a history of abandoning projects after hyping them up on social media and attracting contributors. Here is what happened to SerenityOS and jakt, for example: https://github.com/SerenityOS/serenity/graphs/commit-activit... https://github.com/SerenityOS/jakt/graphs/commit-activity If Cloudflare wants to defend the future of the web, maybe they could also throw a few dollars towards…

This is a very strange take. SerenityOS is a hobby project, from which both Jakt and Ladybird were born. Jakt never took off even within the Serenity community. Ladybird is where most of us were spending our time, and its departure from Serenity was a pretty natural evolution.

Ladybird is now a legally established nonprofit, with a board of directors and several full-time employees. Not a hobby.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#385

The hype around Omarchy is just insane.. It is not an installer script (anymore), so instead you have to download a 7GB ISO file (in the name of 'good UX') that ships with Zoom, Spotify, Hey, Basecamp, Steam, Minecraft (??), etc. but you still end up using the same package mirrors (arch's). If it was an install script, like LARBS or many others (before and after omarchy), I'd (almost) get it. If it was a derivative d…

It is strange to me that omarchy took off and not Regolith Desktop [1], which is a very similar project, and has been around a lot longer. I suppose the DHH effect is real. There is definitely a critical mass accumulating around the hyprland ecosystem. They seem to be forming their own culture separate from the wider FOSS community that I find concerning.

[1] https://regolith-desktop.com/

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they are, then the web is already fucked since neither corporation has a benevolent track record pertaining to Open Source. Interesting take, since Google has both authored and supported hundreds of FLOSS projects over many years. They even sponsored summer "internships" for students to contribute to Open Source software as long as a maintainer bothered to register and promise to mentor the student via "Summer o…

As someone who's lived in the bay for a bit over 10 years now, when I first moved here Google was very much that company that you think they were. Now, they are not. Every single friend (and it was >50% when I moved here!) has since left Google in the bay area. There is one left at Google entirely, and they're only remaining due to physical location (near family outside the US). I have watched my friends get brutally…

I'm aware of the many changes; including the cancellation of Google SoC. However, gp claimed neither Google nor Apple have a benevolent track record towards open source, and that doesn't ring true to me. The old Google was very benevolent, perhaps only rivalled by Red Hat and (old) IBM.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#387

The hype around Omarchy is just insane.. It is not an installer script (anymore), so instead you have to download a 7GB ISO file (in the name of 'good UX') that ships with Zoom, Spotify, Hey, Basecamp, Steam, Minecraft (??), etc. but you still end up using the same package mirrors (arch's). If it was an install script, like LARBS or many others (before and after omarchy), I'd (almost) get it. If it was a derivative d…

It’s not for me either. I peeked at the script and repo the other day. There were choices I wouldn’t make, but it’s written opinionated in the front. That’s totally fine by me.

It is definitely making Linux more accessible. Yet still new comers to Linux will struggle when they want to do sightly more than what Omarchy offers. In that sense, the current Omarchy may not be _accessible_. But I think with this amount of users coming in, they will be able to find ways for almost anything.

It’s been having a great side effect. Hyprland is having a lot of support. I hope that many other pieces will have supports for better Linux experience. Who knows most of major software applications will have official Linux support in a few years.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s one of the very, very few independent browsers built from the ground up and not on top of one the few existing engines (Gecko, Chromium, WebKit), which is extremely important to the health of the open web. Imagine a world where Chromium is the only browser engine. Standards wouldn’t matter and Google could just do whatever they wanted — we’re pretty close to that as it is.

I suppose one immediate consequence of writing your own engine is you can't publish it to Apple Store, not that I think they care

In EU one can. And currently there is still a huge market not bound to Apple App Store.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#389

Maybe a stupid question but: given the massive vulnerability surface area that a browser presents, why would one choose to build it in C++ instead of something memory and concurrency safe like Rust? I know Rust doesn't automatically make the software safe, but it does rule out a very large % of the exploitable vulnerabilities allowed by unsafe languages like C and C++.

Why build a new browser in C++ when safer and more modern languages are available? [1] > Ladybird started as a component of the SerenityOS hobby project, which only allows C++. The choice of language was not so much a technical decision, but more one of personal convenience. Andreas was most comfortable with C++ when creating SerenityOS, and now we have almost half a million lines of modern C++ to maintain. > However…

Wow! This is great news. While no language can make JS interpretation more safe, I am just happy to hear the the codebase will be in something other than C++. Having started my career with C++, I've enjoyed almost every other language more. The issue I had was I didn't _want_ to touch C++ so it is unlikely I would've contributed. But when Swift makes up more of the codebase, I might go and look around.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#390

I cannot for the life of me understand the Omarchy hype. The Linux community has been theming their distribution installs for decades. What distinguishes this from that?

It's a way for web developers to easily work in the linux sphere without getting burdened too heavily. Not saying that as a dig to web devs, I'm a web deb but that's all it really appears to me. Popular dude in web dev community made it slightly easier for other web devs to do a thing.

It's not just slightly easier. It's much easier.

Sure, there's no innovation in it. But not everything has to be innovative. Useful things can be important too.

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