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Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

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Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#381

Post by jen20 »

simonw wrote: post #300
gibolt wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real issue is all the current bad drivers. A requirement to start re-testing normal people in addition to the elderly would be a large benefit to society.

I'm from the UK, took driving lessons in the UK but then passed my driving test in the USA (in California). The USA driving test is so much easier than the UK one! UK: Varied junctions and roundabouts, traffic lights, independent driving (≈20 minutes via sat nav or signs), one reversing manoeuvre (parallel park, bay park, or pull up on the right and reverse), normal stops and move-offs (including from behind a parked…

Similarly, when I did a US driving test (with a UK license), the examiner himself commented on the relative difficulty.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#382

Post by nobody9999 »

testfrequency wrote: post #134
bytemut wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYC is a new set of challenges. As you already mentioned snow and ice is new. But also missing the high density of people and cars per square area. Behavior of drivers and pedestrians are different and much less polite. I can see it working in NYC but "just fine" is a bit of an over confidence... at least not for the first few years before they learn to deal with these issues that they don't face yet in LA and SF.

We do have narrow streets in LA with double parked cars, cars parked in the street only allowing one car through the middle at a time, and plenty of construction closures and obstacles. Why do so many NYC people think there’s comically no cars in LA or neighborhood streets? Also, I can assure you LA drivers are a tad bit more aggressive than NYC drivers (less honking and flicking off though, LA people are more a driv…

>Also, I can assure you LA drivers are a tad bit more aggressive than NYC drivers (less honking and flicking off though, LA people are more a drive you off the road or into the shoulder sort of passive aggressive).

>I was born and raised in NYC and have lived in LA for quite some time, still going home often for family. I’m really struggling with reading these “NYC is unique” comments regarding Waymo traffic.

Slightly OT, but that reminds me of a cartoon I saw many years ago (I can't remember the publication though :( )

It had two identical panels with two cars and two drivers on a road:

One panel was marked "Los Angeles" where the driver of one car had a "speaking" bubble that said "Have a nice day!" and that same driver had a "thought" bubble saying "Fuck you!"

The other panel was marked "New York," where the driver noted above's "speaking" bubble said "Fuck you!" and the the "thought" bubble said "Have a nice day!"

I've always thought it was a great metaphor. Then again, I'm a native NYer. ;)

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#383

Post by mtalantikite »

testfrequency wrote: post #106
kingkawn wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LA and SF are not close to close to the complexity of nyc traffic and pedestrian culture

TIL. LA doesn’t have complex traffic? What sort of traffic do we have in LA then? LA is walkable, it’s lazy (and mostly incorrect) to say LA isn’t walkable. LA County is massive, and depending on where you want to pick a comparison from, you may prove yourself either right or wrong.

Crossing the street as a pedestrian without a walk signal in NYC goes:

- look in the direction of oncoming traffic as you approach the intersection, cross if you think you can make it without breaking your stride

- if there is traffic, step off the curb into the street and wait for a large enough gap in traffic to walk against the light

- if there is backed up traffic, find a gap to walk in between

Wait until New Yorkers figure out that Waymos will detect you and yield in order to avoid hitting you. People will just disregard and cross right in front of them.

Also, yes, you can walk in LA, but the major difference here is that the sidewalks are for commuting here in NYC. We don't just walk for pleasure.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#384

Post by jen20 »

mulmen wrote: post #295
Natsu wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you actually ride in one, you do notice some off behaviors that I didn't pick up while just driving alongside them. That said, I agree that the bad human drivers have done things far, far worse than any of the cars. The biggest gripe with riding in one is that they're slow, both because of super cautious driving and because they won't take freeways yet.

I have only taken a couple Waymos but I had the opposite experience. They were much faster and more decisive than I expected. They do apparently learn from surrounding drivers and this was LA so maybe that explains the difference.

It wouldn't surprise me if each Waymo has one of a pool of aggression settings - I've noticed the difference between cars as a rider.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#385

Post by II2II »

Antoniocl wrote: post #321
rs186 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complete unrelated, I just wish every driver on the road re-learn that cyclists have the same rights of being on city roads like cars.

How this issue skews probably depends on where you live, but in the area I live, I have the opposite complaint: that bicyclists should re-learn that they are legally required (in my city) to ride on roads, rather than barrelling down sidewalks. That said, this is coming from me as a pedestrian, so maybe someone who was primarily a driver would have a completely different take from both of us.

I have noticed a huge uptick in agressive behaviour from motorists over the past couple of years. By huge uptick, I mean behaviour that I used to see once every couple of weeks I am new facing multiple times daily. Quite bluntly, the politicians in my area are enabling life endangering behaviour towards cyclists by blaming cyclists for traffic congestion that have nothing to do with cyclists (e.g. road construction projects for motorists, or waterworks or building construction that have nothing to do with cyclists).

While I am sticking to the roads, I don't blame other cyclists for seeking refuge on the sidewalks.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#386

Post by stronglikedan »

rs186 wrote: post #291
gibolt wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real issue is all the current bad drivers. A requirement to start re-testing normal people in addition to the elderly would be a large benefit to society.

Complete unrelated, I just wish every driver on the road re-learn that cyclists have the same rights of being on city roads like cars.

I just wish every cyclist would re-learn that they're bound by the same traffics laws as every driver on the road. I'd bet accidents are more often than not mostly their fault.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#387

Post by AngryData »

ilamont wrote: post #313
afcool83 wrote: post #239

I live in one of the areas they are actively testing/training in. Their cars consistently behave better and more safely than most human drivers that I’m forced to share the road with. As semi-autonomous and autonomous cars become the norm, I would adore to see obtaining a drivers license ratchet up in difficulty in order to remove dangerous human drivers from the road.

Traffic enforcement, which used to correct some bad driving, has basically evaporated in many parts of the U.S. This has been a long-term trend. A friend who's a cop told me that only when their department got specific state grants would they set up stings of drivers driving in a pedestrian walkway while someone was crossing the street. Here's an example of one such grant program, which is actually funded by the fede…

That's because US cops and courts only care about making a profit, and cops issuing speeding tickets and minor traffic infractions don't earn money.

But something like an operating while intoxicated is big bucks, which is why some places have drivers on the road with 12 DUI convictions (tens of thousands in state profit), and now we got cops and courts from legal cannabis states arresting people for smoking 8 hours beforehand because the criteria for guilt is ill-defined but the punishments are massive because they just copied all of the harshest (read expensive) drunk driving laws.

US cops and courts don't care about guilt, they don't care about safety; over and over and over again they have shown themselves to be a profit-seeking racket. Anyone who has ever been in or had access to the the details of someone's criminal case and seen the mountains of ridiculous extra fines and fees and ways to waste money for no gain knows how ridiculous it is.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#388

Post by stronglikedan »

Foofoobar12345 wrote: post #314
rs186 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complete unrelated, I just wish every driver on the road re-learn that cyclists have the same rights of being on city roads like cars.

And I wish cyclists would re-learn that pedestrians have more rights of being on sidewalks. That said, the bigger plague on sidewalks are e-scooters. Additionally, most cyclists I see never stop at stop signs no matter how busy the intersection is.

> And I wish cyclists would re-learn that pedestrians have more rights of being on sidewalks.

That's not universal, but I do wish they would just learn those laws for their state.

In my state, they have equal rights, and that is that no one has the right of way. If you run into someone, it's your fault full stop. If you couldn't stop in time, then you were travelling too fast for the situation. If someone is blocking the sidewalk, they're a dick, but you can't do anything about it without getting arrested except to find another way around.

Also, if you're on a bike and about to pass a pedestrian, you must give an audible (to the ped) signal so as to warn of your approach. Even then, if you hit them, it's because you were going to fast to stop safely in case they wandered into your path.

I love the laws in my state regarding shared cycling/pedestrian ways, and sidewalks in particular. Very reasonable and fair.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#389

Post by stronglikedan »

bathtub365 wrote: post #333
rs186 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Complete unrelated, I just wish every driver on the road re-learn that cyclists have the same rights of being on city roads like cars.

Yep, including not being allowed to run red lights. It would also be great if they had license plates so you could easily report dangerous behaviour.

> It would also be great if they had license plates

Lol, like hell it would. The supposed "danger" is not worth more legislation and overreach.

Re: Waymo granted permit to begin testing in New York City

#390

Post by ilamont »

kotaKat wrote: post #347
ilamont wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Traffic enforcement, which used to correct some bad driving, has basically evaporated in many parts of the U.S. This has been a long-term trend. A friend who's a cop told me that only when their department got specific state grants would they set up stings of drivers driving in a pedestrian walkway while someone was crossing the street. Here's an example of one such grant program, which is actually funded by the fede…

> Years ago New York used to calculate if you were speeding the NY State Thruway based on the time between toll booths. They cancelled this program for some reason. Did they? The only thing I knew they nailed people for was speeding through the EZPass lanes too fast.

This was decades ago. Maybe the 70s or 80s. My late uncle got busted multiple times.
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