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Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

helsinkitimes.fi

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Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#381

Post by Earw0rm »

jmkni wrote: post #87
sapiogram wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making drivers miserable is part of the intention, they want people to drive less because it's annoying as hell for everyone else.

That's fine if the public transport is up to scratch, as well as the cycling infrastructure. Where I live it's woefully inadequate making driving the only viable option for most journeys. This has a knock on effect of making cycling down right dangerous in places, because of all the cars + relatively high speed limits, like I wouldn't want to cycle from my house to work, it would be at best unpleasant, and I would be…

Even where public transport and cycling infra is more than adequate, you still have to restrict cars.

Otherwise some people will choose driving to an extent that it screws up the public transport for everyone else.

At least that's the lesson from London's buses. Paris built a more extensive metro system (London's tube is equivalent in the areas where it operates, but less than half the city is within 15 minutes walk of a Tube stop) so that part is deconflicted at least.

But Paris is running into the same issue as they try to build out their cycle network. It can't be done without restricting cars, much to the annoyance of those who've built lifestyles around driving.

Which really isn't at all necessary in a city like London or Paris, but that doesn't mean people don't do it.

I'm not ideologically against people driving, especially EVs, but on a practical level it seems to be very difficult to accommodate demand for driving in a dense-enough-to-be-interesting city without screwing everything else up: pedestrian and cycling safety, bus reliability, street space usage, noise and air quality.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#382

Post by anon191928 »

kennywinker wrote: post #167
iambateman wrote: post #28

As Hank Green said…”no one tells you when you don’t die.” There’s several people walking around Helsinki right now who would not be had they not made safety improvements…we just don’t know who they are.

Several people is an understatement. based on population, if it was the US there’s more than 160 people in Helsinki every year NOT killed. So, thousands of people.

Meanwhile, US is losing 100 a day for traffic related days. It's literally like a war

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#383

Post by fabioborellini »

prmoustache wrote: post #373
Sharlin wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell that to all the (usually Southern) Finns who seem to think that you’re supposed to drive at or above the speed limit and at too short following distances even in terrible conditions… with predictable consequences.

I think this is universal.

Since there really are no traffic jams in Finland, my experience is that the phenomenon is worse here. In more populated countries drivers must deal with sometimes occurring reduced speeds like adults, but in Finland there usually is enough space for a single driver to keep their speed at 115% of the limit, due to other drivers facilitating the selfishness. If someone does not facilitate, the speeder will get aggressive and has to find someone to blame for their (actually, his and his car’s, which has more civil rights than a leftist) misfortune.

In Germany all drivers have to accept that there isn’t enough road capacity so everyone could drive as fast as they want and the Staus cannot be blamed on the car in front of you. It’s also common to drive under the limit, in Finland 115% of the limit is the socially acceptable minimum.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#384

Post by Earw0rm »

cyberax wrote: post #351
woodruffw wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've sort of given it away with the "smaller cities" thing. People who live in NYC don't want to live in a smaller American-style city with suburban sprawl. (You've also glossed over the more painful statistic: for every lifetime-equivalent lost on mass transit inefficiencies, there are hundreds lost to gridlock in NYC. That number, already terrible, would be far worse without the city's mass transit -- you simply…

I mean, I don't hide my despair at large cities. They're destroying the fabric of the Western civilization by acting as black holes for population. > You've also glossed over the more painful statistic: for every lifetime-equivalent lost on mass transit inefficiencies, there are hundreds lost to gridlock in NYC. Here's the thing. A well-designed human-oriented city like Houston has FASTER commutes than ANY similar-si…

You do know that cities are for things besides going from your suburban family home unit to your workplace and back again?

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#385

Post by Earw0rm »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #66
GuB-42 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So they hurt quality of life by making it more painful to get anywhere No, they only made it more painful to get into the city streets by car. And probably not by much, as it only matters if you are not stuck in traffic or waiting at a red light. Helsinki is a walkable city with good public transport, cars are not the only option. > Mass surveillance under the ever present and weak excuse of “safety” Speed traps (t…

> Speed traps (that's probably what is talked about here) are a very targeted from of surveillance, only taking pictures of speeding vehicles. Speed cameras in practice will use ALPR, and by the time the hardware capable of doing ALPR is installed, they'll then have the incentive to record every passing vehicle in a database whether it was speeding or not, and whether or not they're "allowed" to do that when the came…

Good.

Freedom to move around the city anonymously does not mean freedom to move around the city in a 2000kg, 100kW heavy machine anonymously.

Even the US recognises that the right to bear arms doesn't extend to an M1A1 Abrams.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#386

Post by ivape »

PaulRobinson wrote: post #113

I was in Helsinki for work a couple of years ago, walking back to my hotel with some colleagues after a few hours drinking (incredibly expensive, but quite nice), beer. It was around midnight and we happened to come across a very large mobile crane on the pavement blocking our way. As we stepped out (carefully), into the road to go around it, one of my Finnish colleagues started bemoaning that no cones or barriers ha…

[flagged]

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#387

Post by fabioborellini »

pavlov wrote: post #227
rozab wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would guess Finnish deaths are inflated by the rural rallying culture though, hard to compare

Yes, in rural Finland 17-year-old boys who just got their license regularly end up killing themselves and their friends by reckless driving. I believe there is cultural issue with boys’ upbringing. Recently my 8-year-old daughter was spending a week with her mother’s relatives in middle Finland. One day she sent me a picture of an old Volvo in a ditch. “Guess what dad, my cousin drove it off the road and I was in the…

Finnish rural boys rarely have other personality traits than their favourite car brand. It’s usually BMW or Volvo, and friendships must follow the shared brand following. Someone driving a Nissan Micra should starve to death, according to both camps.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#388

Post by chrz »

graemep wrote: post #148
PaulRobinson wrote: post #113

I was in Helsinki for work a couple of years ago, walking back to my hotel with some colleagues after a few hours drinking (incredibly expensive, but quite nice), beer. It was around midnight and we happened to come across a very large mobile crane on the pavement blocking our way. As we stepped out (carefully), into the road to go around it, one of my Finnish colleagues started bemoaning that no cones or barriers ha…

On the other hand the UK as a whole had a lower road traffic realted death rate than Finland did: https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casua... The UK is not that different by comparison. It is a pretty remarkable achievement though, and shows what can be done.

beacuse traffic is so bad that no cars are really moving on city streets. The artificial safety of overly putting more lights than necessary is slowing down whole city and make it safer this way. The poeple and culture as whole is even less safety aware because of over governance and warning signs everywhere

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#389

Post by _kidlike »

bsimpson wrote: post #340
PaulRobinson wrote: post #113

I was in Helsinki for work a couple of years ago, walking back to my hotel with some colleagues after a few hours drinking (incredibly expensive, but quite nice), beer. It was around midnight and we happened to come across a very large mobile crane on the pavement blocking our way. As we stepped out (carefully), into the road to go around it, one of my Finnish colleagues started bemoaning that no cones or barriers ha…

Switzerland has the most pristine roads of anywhere I've ever ridden. They also have a bonkers amount of road construction.

most pristine roads with most hostile arrangement towards drivers, at least in Zurich. There are some insanely complicated intersections in 4D, that if you don't follow the correct series of 10 consecutive lane switches and sub-exits in 2 minutes you end up with a 20 minute mistake. Country side is very enjoyable though.

Re: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year

#390

Post by Earw0rm »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #232
numpad0 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, the real problem is that people cover too much distances daily. 50km is more than Luxembourg is wide where it's narrowest. They probably don't commute internationally every day there.

> See, the real problem is that people cover too much distances daily. Which is why most of this is really a housing problem. If you make it too difficult to add new housing in and around cities, people have to live farther away, and in turn show up to the city in cars.

That's true, but people will willingly sacrifice time for a rather small career step up; moving house is hard once you have a family in schools and so on; so in a conurbation you end up with 1hr+ commutes anyway.

I don't think most are math-minded enough to factor commute time and cost into any salary calculation, if there's a 10% pay bump they'll take it even if all the gains get eaten up travel.

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