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Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

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Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#381

Post by user____name »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #237
ghurtado wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See, it's stories like this one that make me really question just how ethical it is to completely eliminate Down's from the gene pool. I understand it's the correct medical and scientific thing to do, it's just that it sometimes feels a little bit like eugenics for me.

I don't see how it is ethical AT ALL to let new children have Down syndrome when we have the ability to eliminate the gene. If Nazis hadn't practiced eugenics it wouldn't have been shuned as it is today. There's nothing wrong with eugenics in itself, just with how it's applied.

The social effects at scale are what bothers me. Just wait a century until employers put "no genetic defects" in their job applications. Or parents who decide to have old fashioned non-designer babies have trouble getting their kids insured. Or homophobia will become normalized again because "they should have fixed it in the womb". Is this a sufficient reason to not prevent genetic defects? Who can say.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#382

Post by somenameforme »

Adverblessly wrote: post #377
somenameforme wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think societies somewhat naturally wax and wane on most topics, probably because it seems we're simply unable to maintain a middle ground on anything. We always end up taking things to an extreme which, regardless of what that extreme may be, tends to lead to unpleasant scenarios which causes society to start bouncing back in the opposite direction only to repeat the cycle in the equal but opposite direction some t…

I can't speak to other countries, but here in Israel at least, religion is highly correlated with number of children. Focusing on jewish women, fertility rates for different levels of religion in 2021-2023: Ultra-orthodox 6.48 Religious 3.74 Traditional-religious 2.81 Traditional, not so religious 2.20 Not religious, secular 1.96 So naturally over time the religious portion of the population grows.

And this follows globally - fertility is one of the most interesting and critical issues of our time. It's going to change the future in ways most absolutely do not appreciate. On this topic most people see the world as inevitably becoming more secular because that's how society has trended during most of our lives, so it seems almost like a natural law. Yet even fertility alone means that society will almost certainly become substantially less secular over time.

This also has implications for the long-term population of Earth. The claim we'll reach a "max" population sometime this century is quite silly. It'll be a local max, not a global max. Because if even a single group maintains a positive fertility rate, that group will eventually drive the population to start increasing again (and basically take ownership of the gene pool while they're at it).

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#383

Post by [deleted] »

zarzavat wrote: post #83
SJC_Hacker wrote: post #57

It was well on its way to being eliminated in much of the First World through screening during pregnancy at around 2-3 months. Alot of mothers were electing to terminate the pregnancy and perhaps try again. Especially much of Europe which didn't quite have the moral objections against abortion that the US does, save for a few countries who still have substantial observant Catholics such as Ireland and Poland. Here's…

> Some bioethics experts are concerned I do have to wonder what goes on in the minds of these people. My sister-in-law has a child with Down's syndrome and the situation basically ruined her life. She can no longer work, so they now struggle on a single income, if her husband were to leave her she would be completely screwed. To what end is that in the continuance of ethics?

[deleted]

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#384

Post by [deleted] »

jedimastert wrote: post #326
zarzavat wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some bioethics experts are concerned I do have to wonder what goes on in the minds of these people. My sister-in-law has a child with Down's syndrome and the situation basically ruined her life. She can no longer work, so they now struggle on a single income, if her husband were to leave her she would be completely screwed. To what end is that in the continuance of ethics?

> She can no longer work, so they now struggle on a single income, if her husband were to leave her she would be completely screwed. This is not inherent to Down's syndrome, this is because we live in a society that could easily support people but doesn't.

[deleted]

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#385

Post by robertlagrant »

rbanffy wrote: post #336
robertlagrant wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've mis-defined "conservative" to mean "everyone who lost in history".

“Conservatives” yearn for an idealised version of something that has been, but that is no more. In that, they are the very definition of sore losers.

You've done it too.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#386

Post by RamblingCTO »

shlant wrote: post #364
jedimastert wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No for real, the amount of people desperately trying to work in the fact that they think eugenics is fine

just because something is "eugenics" doesn't mean it's bad or shouldn't be discussed.

No, I think discussing anything that essentially boils down to "some human lifes are not worth it" is not ok, no. There's always the slippery slope to consider. Especially if you're from Germany like me, that's one too far. History, you know.

We also would do good if we'd learn from books like 1984 or brave new world.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#387

Post by BrawnyBadger53 »

twixfel wrote: post #232
juujian wrote: post #5

This is interesting news, for the lack of a better word. I've met more than one person with downs syndrome. They have definitely enriched my life and shown me a different way of looking at the world.

Letting someone have Down’s when it’s avoidable just for the entertainment value is hardly moral.

I don't think they were suggesting this

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#388

Post by RamblingCTO »

ben_w wrote: post #323
RamblingCTO wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no slippery slope here, nope.

Slippery slopes abound everywhere. The fact that you'd be crushed at a depth of (IDK, 2km or so?) underwater doesn't make "swimming" unhealthy. My concern with eugenics is that it's a thing which various groups of extremely narrow-minded bigots push for to promote mutually exclusive ideals, ideals which often have much the same level of biological awareness as an untrained idiot picking up a scuba kit and trying to w…

> because we don't know the limits of our own ignorance

oh boy, would we fare better with a lot of stuff if we'd consider this before releasing shit into the wild (asbestos, ptfe, plastics, AI and so on).

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#389

Post by margalabargala »

lurk2 wrote: post #222
margalabargala wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, very similar to how in the decades after abortion was legalized nationally in the US, it gradually northern to our current state where it is legal to kill your own children any time before they turn 18. Oh wait, no, that didn't happen, because in both your and my case it turns out humans are able to distinguish between life that is and life that might be. The "step" you mentioned is only a small one in a philoso…

> it gradually northern to our current state where it is legal to kill your own children any time before they turn 18. They’re trying. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcHzaWyB21A

That video is about abortion. Before birth. So no, they're not trying.

Re: Scientists may have found a way to eliminate chromosome linked to Down syndrome

#390

Post by JesseMReeves »

zarzavat wrote: post #83
SJC_Hacker wrote: post #57

It was well on its way to being eliminated in much of the First World through screening during pregnancy at around 2-3 months. Alot of mothers were electing to terminate the pregnancy and perhaps try again. Especially much of Europe which didn't quite have the moral objections against abortion that the US does, save for a few countries who still have substantial observant Catholics such as Ireland and Poland. Here's…

> Some bioethics experts are concerned I do have to wonder what goes on in the minds of these people. My sister-in-law has a child with Down's syndrome and the situation basically ruined her life. She can no longer work, so they now struggle on a single income, if her husband were to leave her she would be completely screwed. To what end is that in the continuance of ethics?

It is always about exerting control over female bodies. Not rational, but evolutionary residue.
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