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AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

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Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#381

Post by swores »

danparsonson wrote: post #375
swores wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long ago did nm numbers stop being descriptions of size of chip and start being purely marketing names? About a decade?

https://www.extremetech.com/computing/296154-how-are-process... "For a long time, gate length (the length of the transistor gate) and half-pitch (half the distance between two identical features on a chip) matched the process node name, but the last time this was true was 1997"

Oh wow, I didn't realise it has been that long! Thanks for sharing

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#382

Post by acchow »

jychang wrote: post #368
jongjong wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and surely it's a cost which can be reduced over time by improving automation and/or by cutting back on regulations.

I doubt that, unless you're willing to pay USA workers Taiwan salaries.

USA workers will not accept Taiwan salaries.

Numbeo shows the cost of living (including rent) is 45% higher in Phoenix than in Hsinchu (where TSMC's 2N is)

Rent is 176% higher.

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#383

Post by NavinF »

avhception wrote: post #352
ffsm8 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even centered on the US. I personally think the Internet just desensitized us all. Reasons for that are easy to come up, imo chief among them being web2.0 (social media) and the ever increasing degree with which people exaggerate everything just to get a reaction. Under that context, what's a little skirt chasing compared to what people usually say about the politicians? And how are you gonna remember he did…

It's like watching the public discourse devolve into ever more screaming and posturing. The only winning move is not to play. Sometimes I find myself thinking about that experiment with the perfect rat paradise. The overpopulation got so bad, the normal social functions of the rats started to break down and the rats started acting like sociopaths. Sometimes, I think that's what we're doing to ourselves by exposing th…

The mouse utopia experiment is mostly fake and researchers who reproduced the experiment didn't see any of those behaviors: https://gwern.net/mouse-utopia

It was just as wrong as predictions about human overpopulation like Malthusianism

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#384

Post by johntarter »

Henchman21 wrote: post #360
ffsm8 wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even centered on the US. I personally think the Internet just desensitized us all. Reasons for that are easy to come up, imo chief among them being web2.0 (social media) and the ever increasing degree with which people exaggerate everything just to get a reaction. Under that context, what's a little skirt chasing compared to what people usually say about the politicians? And how are you gonna remember he did…

It’s almost like the correct action to take would be a Luddite-style wrench-in-the-works. Sabotage in service of humanity. And as an added bonus, think of all the electricity we’d get back!

Bring on the Bureau of Sabotage from Frank Herbert's ConSentiency universe books!

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#386

Post by idiotsecant »

internet2000 wrote: post #349
avhception wrote: post #342

If that is the cost of keeping the value within the western economies, we should pay. Plain and simple. I'd even argue it's cheap.

No, I am absolutely not going to pay a 20% premium on the market. I’m sorry but I won’t. If this is really crucial to national security then the government can subsidize the premium. And I know I’m not alone, price speaks louder.

Enjoy not buying any chips next time there is a supply chain hiccup. If COVID didn't teach you this lesson, I don't think you're teachable.

If you're making a product one of the considerations you make is how robust your supply chain is. If you fail to make that consideration you will get eaten by the organizations that do, on a long enough timescale.

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#387

Post by CamperBob2 »

tucnak wrote: post #304
CamperBob2 wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The climate of uncertainty under Trump inhibits long-term investment, whether in chip fabs, car factories, or anything else. He has reminded us all of something that's really always been a problem: whatever one Congress or one POTUS supports can be undone by the next. Usually opposing parties have had the common sense not to immediately hit the undo button once they take office. E.g., Biden leaving most of Trump's pr…

I'm sorry, but to blame Intel's inadequacies on political climate is comedic.

[flagged]

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#388

Post by Icathian »

wg0 wrote: post #385
avhception wrote: post #342

If that is the cost of keeping the value within the western economies, we should pay. Plain and simple. I'd even argue it's cheap.

American. Not Western. West and America are drifting apart.

I think you're mistaking the name of a cardinal direction for a cohesive set of political ideologies.

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#389

Post by XorNot »

bongodongobob wrote: post #355
internet2000 wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I am absolutely not going to pay a 20% premium on the market. I’m sorry but I won’t. If this is really crucial to national security then the government can subsidize the premium. And I know I’m not alone, price speaks louder.

Wait until you learn who the government gets its money from.

Why are people showing up to tell other people they'll be sorry if they don't pay more for the same product now, but are also absolutely opposed to subsidies by the government?

I already own a perfectly adequate computer for my needs. In every possible way this won't affect me, and infact so long as the cheaper product is available for purchase it still won't affect me. If I'm a business I'll be 20% better off then other local businesses by continuing to not buy local anyway. If I'm consumer...well I'll just have more stuff I want.

And so on in this way you might want to go read up on The Tragedy of the Commons in economic theory and then reflect on what one of the primary roles of government actually is.

Re: AMD CEO sees chips from TSMC's US plant costing 5%-20% more

#390

Post by bigfatkitten »

rich_sasha wrote: post #119
timmg wrote: post #34

What I really want to know, from someone who does know: Is Intel cooked? Like, will they be able to manufacture chips that compete with TSMC? They used to be a crown-jewel of US tech. But it seems like every time I read the news, they are announcing a delay or shutting down some product.

I'm not into hardware but I remember when AMD was sneered at, and all real CPUs were Intel. Then Ryzen happened. My meta conclusion is that its super hard to tell when someone is done, and it can change quickly. Or not. Sometimes it if looks like terminal decline, it simply is terminal decline.

AMD has supposedly been on the verge of being done for over 40 years now.
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