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OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

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Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#381

Post by [deleted] »

rapind wrote: post #110
druskacik wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to ask the opposite question: why do people prefer command line tools? I tried both and I prefer working in IDE. The main reason is that I don't trust the LLMs too much and I like to see and potentially quickly edit the changes they make. With an IDE, I can iterate much faster than with the command line tool. I haven't tried Claude Code VS Code extension. Did anyone replaced Cursor with this setup?

You're looking at (coloured) diffs in your shell is all when it comes to coding. It's pretty easy to setup MCP and have claude be the director. Like I have zen MCP running with an OpenRouter API key, and will ask claude to consult with pro (gemini) or o3, or both to come up with an architecture review / plan. I honestly don't know how great that is, because it just reiterates what I was planning anyways, and I can't…

[deleted]

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#382

Post by princevegeta89 »

druskacik wrote: post #98
libraryofbabel wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some excellent points. On “add selection to chat”, I just want to add that the Claude Code VS code extension automatically passes the current selection to the model. :) I am genuinely curious if any Cursor or Windsurf users who have also tried Claude Code could speak to why they prefer the IDE-fork tools? I’ve only ever used Claude Code myself - what am I missing?

I'd like to ask the opposite question: why do people prefer command line tools? I tried both and I prefer working in IDE. The main reason is that I don't trust the LLMs too much and I like to see and potentially quickly edit the changes they make. With an IDE, I can iterate much faster than with the command line tool. I haven't tried Claude Code VS Code extension. Did anyone replaced Cursor with this setup?

I replaced. My opinion: Cursor sucks as an IDE. Cursor may have a average to above average quality in IDE assistance - but the IDE seems to get in the way. It's entire performance is based on the real-time performance and latency from their servers and sometimes it is way too slow. The TAB autocomplete that was working for you in the last 30 minutes suddenly doesn't work randomly, or just experiences severe delays that it stops making sense.

Besides that, the IDE seems poorly designed - some navigation options are confusing and it makes way too many intrusive changes (ex: automatically finishing strings).

I've since gone back to VS Code - with Cline (with OpenRouter and super cheap Qwen Coder models, Windsurf FREE, Claude Code with $20 per month) and I get great mileage from all of them.

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#383

Post by raesene9 »

hobofan wrote: post #374
wadefletch wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

flip-flopping on pricing has led users to feel nickel-and-dimed i like cursor fine, but check out the forum/subreddit to see people talking like addicts, pissed their fix is getting more expensive i think this aggressive reaction is more pronounced for non-programmers who are making things for the first time. they tasted a new power and they don't want it taken away.

What surprises me is just how much they've missed the mark. I'm not an extreme user of Cursor. It has become an essential part of my workflow, but I also probably on the lower/medium section of users. I know that a lot of my friends were spending $XXX amounts/month on extra usage with them, while I've never gone beyond 50% included premium credits usage. After their changes I'm getting hit with throttling multiple ti…

My guess is that it's your second scenario there (avoid running at a loss). In the start-up game scale/growth is the most important thing and profits really aren't that important. you want to show to later stage VCs that your idea has traction and there's a large addressable market.

Whilst profits aren't important you also can't burn all your current capital, so if the burn rate gets too high you have to put up prices, which seems likely to be what Cursor is doing.

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#384

Post by pjc50 »

herval wrote: post #235
woeirua wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no moat. If you’re a true believer that strong agents are around the corner, then all of these add on companies will be obsolete in a few years. The first company to strong agents can trivially rebuild Cursor or Windsurf.

If you believe AGI is around the corner, doesn’t it mean it’ll replace ALL products?

If you believe AGI is round the corner (I don't), then you face the dilemma of investing in a company that will be the one profitable survivor in a disintegrating world.

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#385

Post by positr0n »

brendoelfrendo wrote: post #247
resonious wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re productivity gains, CC allows me to code during my commute time. Even on a crowded bus/train I can get real work done just with my phone.

Unless you're getting paid for your commute, you're just giving your employer free productivity. I would recommend doing literally anything else with that time. Read a book, maybe.

Everywhere I've worked as a programmer you're just paid to do your job. If you get some of it done on your commute what difference does it make?

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#386

Post by blitzar »

jonas21 wrote: post #64
_jab wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flipside, I’m pretty sure the investors got screwed.

The investors made money too. The valuation at the last round was $1B, and Google paid them out at a valuation of $2.5B as part of the agreement [1]. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/2/24212348/google-hires-char...

2.5x in 10 months. With returns like that - if I were the full time chef of the investors spare private jet I would be updating my CV and looking for a new gig.

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#387

Post by brailsafe »

jonstewart wrote: post #298
e1g wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, a lot of usage, I’d guess top 10% among my peers. I do 6-10hrs of constant iterating across mid-size codebases of 750k tokens. CC is set to use Opus by default, which further drives up costs. Estimating productivity gains is a flame war I don’t want to start, but as a signal: if the CC Max plan goes up 10x in price, I’m still keeping my subscription. I maintain top-tier subscription to every frontier service (~$…

I am curious what kind of development you’re doing and where your projects fall on the fast iteration correctness curve (no judgment). I’ve used CC Pro for a few weeks now and I will keep it, it’s fantastically useful for some things, but it has wasted more of my time than it saved when I’ve experimented with giving it harder tasks.

It's interesting to work with a number of people using various models and interaction modes in slightly different capacities. I can see where the huge productivity gains are and can feel them, but the same is true for the opposite. I'm pretty sure I lost a full day or more trying to track down a build error because it was relatively trivial fpr someone to ask CC or something to refactor a ton of files, which it seems to have done a bit too eagerly. On the other hand, that refactor would have been super tedious, so maybe worth it?

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#388

Post by tsimionescu »

dostick wrote: post #354
AJ007 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty easy to hit $100 an hour using Opus on API credits. The model providers are heavily subsidized, the datacenters appear to be too. If you look at the Coreweave stuff and the private datacenters it starts looking like the telecom bubble. Even Meta is looking to finance datacenter expansion - https://www.reuters.com/business/meta-seeks-29-billion-priva... The reason they are talking about building new nuclear pow…

Why “no capitalism required”? Competition of this kind is only possible with capitalism.

Not really, it's possible with any market economy, even a hypothetical socialist one (that is, one where all market actors are worker-owned co-ops).

And, since there is no global super-state, the world economy is a market economy, so even if every state were a state-owned planned economy, North Korea style, still there would exist this type of competition between states.

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#389

Post by seydor »

ghuntley wrote: post #38

For the love of God, can we get a reboot of the Silicon Valley television show? Just on AI. Like when they wrapped it, they wrapped it on AI usage. So, it's got the perfect arc for a reboot that focuses perfectly on AI.

Why ? we get to watch the original reality show in real time, for free!

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#390

Post by jdkoeck »

teruakohatu wrote: post #152
lunarcave wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strictly speaking about large, complex, sprawling codebases, I don't think you can beat the experience that an IDE + coding agent brings with a terminal-based coding agent. Auto-regressive nature of these things mean that errors accumulate, and IDEs are well placed to give that observability to the human, than a coding agent. I can course correct more easily in an IDE with clear diffs, coding navigation, than followi…

> I don't think you can beat the experience that an IDE + coding agent brings with a terminal-based coding agent. CC has some integration with VSC it is not all or nothing.

Honestly, I think the Claude Code integration in VS Code is very close to the « nothing » part of the spectrum!
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