Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

381–390 of 407 posts

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#381

Post by eesmith »

SllX wrote: post #184
eesmith wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? The US has several ways to acquire jurisdiction over foreign defendants. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_jurisdiction_over_int... If Macron were to sell old GREs online then, as the Raju case determined, the US can try him, and if Macron fails to appear for the trial, he defaults on the case and is subject to arrest should he appear in the US, or any county which has the appropriate extradition treaty…

I’m sure you want to try and catch me in an act of hypocrisy but I think I’ve been clear throughout this thread. So let me put it to you this way, if the Chilean President had the power of the POTUS backed up by a military equivalent to or superior to the US Military, would the UK have arrested and extradited him on behalf of Spain? So the solution for American Presidents is even simpler than the one you propose: dis…

If you don't want to be arrested, don't visit somewhere which will likely arrest you. It's as simple as that. I don't see your issue about the ICC.

Pinochet was arrested after he was no longer president. He expected Chilean amnesty laws meant he was untouchable for his crimes. He was wrong.

If I commit an international war crime and get the US President to issue a pardon, then I'm free from legal problems in the US, but why should I expect to be able to visit The Netherlands without being arrested?

State visits are a different topic, with promises of safe passage/diplomatic immunity arranged before hand.

Castro visited the US several times during his presidency, for example, and Hungary recently promised to ignore the ICC arrest warrant on Netanyahu before his visit.

If guarantees cannot be made, the visit doesn't occur. It's as simple as that.

Why should becoming the president of France give Macron the right to sell old GREs online to people in the US, without fear of lawsuit and being tried in abstentia?

If such an exception exists, then Macron could make good money selling illegal drugs online to US citizens.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#382

Post by eesmith »

SllX wrote: post #244
GTP wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, in the end, your point is not whether the ICC should have the right to put foreign presidents on trial. It's about who has got the strongest military power.

My position is that the ICC should not even exist, but if it is going to exist, then America should safeguard itself and its allies from it. If you look at the real history of the ICC, it’s effectively toothless over any nation that can safeguard its own sovereignty, and otherwise a fig leaf for the supposed lawfulness of foreign intervention into nations that cannot.

Get rid of the ICC and the exact same sovereignty issues remain with individual national courts.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#383

Post by insane_dreamer »

revnode wrote: post #96
Aliabid94 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US continues to burn its soft power capital to defend Israel - this guy was only targeted because of his investigations on Israeli war crimes.

[flagged]

> ICC can and will target the US at some point

as they should, if the US' actions warrant it

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#384

Post by vanviegen »

revnode wrote: post #264
Tostino wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the US is in the wrong, why should I as a citizen not want our government officials held accountable?

> If the US is in the wrong, why should I as a citizen not want our government officials held accountable? A core principle of American justice is judgement by a jury of your peers from your community according to our laws, not by foreigners on the other side of the planet according to foreign laws. Violations of our core principles through means we were not a party to is a violation of our sovereignty.

Is committing war crimes against non-US citizens in other sovereign countries part of US sovereignty?

(I'm not saying that's what happened, just explaining why I think it is morally right for the ICC to exist, however impractical when dealing with powerful nations.)

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#385

Post by FirmwareBurner »

kzrdude wrote: post #344
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's still for rage-bait. Trump says a lot of things, most of them aren't true. Everyone operating in good faith, knew this wasn't true. Nobody above a room temperature IQ would think the US would invade Denmark. Edit: @danieljacksonno answering your comment from below here: >He repeated it several times. Trump repeats everything all the time. So what? That's what all politicians do. Your brain (if you have one) is…

So it sounds like you'll "filter out the noise" until the wannabe dictator stands on /your/ neck, and then it's a bit late to react..

How is Trump a dictator?

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#386

Post by vidarh »

spwa4 wrote: post #200
vidarh wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ICC takes actions against people. It very specifically does not have jurisdiction over conflicts between states . The ICJ pursues cases against states. > Not one iota of attention of the court ever went to that. The ICC only has jurisdiction over the territories and nationals of the State Parties to the Rome Statute. In the case of Israel, the actions are taken on the basis of alleged crimes in Palestinian territ…

[flagged]

> Your entire argument boils down do "this is legal for the ICC, and that that definition of legal differs greatly from your sense of justice doesn't matter"

No. No part of my comment was about that at all.

> is the case can you explain ICC action against US and Israel, neither of which are parties to the Rome statute

The ICC does not take actions against states. As for the actions against Israeli officials, those are taken on the basis of actions relating to Palestine, over which ICChas jurisdiction be cause Palestine is party to the court. I explained this.

> Also from the other side: the ICC most certainly COULD sue South Africa for working with Putin and Bashar Al-Assad to help them escape justice.

No, it could not. The ICC does not have jurisdiction over states. For the ICC to act would require evidence of specific individuals violating the Rome Statute.

> They chose not to. Frankly, MANY signatories to the Rome statute have zero intention to ever hold up their end.

Here we agree, for once. This is indeed a problem.

> And your claim "they follow their own rules" ... you also neglected to discuss why the ICC changed it's own statutes TWICE to sue Israel ...

They did not, and the ICC does not sue anybody, and the ICC can not pursue states. Every part of this sentence is wrong and or misunderstands how the ICC works.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#387

Post by Hikikomori »

kayodelycaon wrote: post #138
boston_clone wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

for the sake of understanding your position, could you provide some examples? to me it doesn’t seem clear that israeli foreign policy is far removed from US foreign policy or even in contention. The way we vote at the UNSC proves our support for some of the most grotesque of actions - deliberately killing infants and children. Their recent preemptive strike on Iran is, imo, further evidence of that proxy status.

Israel is very much not in the control of the US. The US didn’t want Gaza razed to the ground. The US didn’t want to start another regional war. We were try to get out if this mess. Our population voted to get out of military action in the Middle East. Unfortunately for the US, we’re stuck with what Israel decides to do. A lot of Americans are in favor of supporting Israel for one reason or another. If Irsael is some…

How has your leadership tried to get out of this mess? Biden at best told them to not use block sized bombs as it would look too bad. Trump is even worse. Congress is full of war Hawks and genocide supporters.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#388

Post by spwa4 »

vidarh wrote: post #386
spwa4 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Your entire argument boils down do "this is legal for the ICC, and that that definition of legal differs greatly from your sense of justice doesn't matter" No. No part of my comment was about that at all. > is the case can you explain ICC action against US and Israel, neither of which are parties to the Rome statute The ICC does not take actions against states. As for the actions against Israeli officials, those ar…

[flagged]

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#389

Post by nickdothutton »

snickerbockers wrote: post #150
nickdothutton wrote: post #81

Europe had a plan after they learned Merkel’s blackberry contents were going to Fort Meade, but they never enacted it. They planned their own MS Office (and email) replacement. Even got as far as scouting data centre sites and identifying first 40M accounts.

The EU seems to have a problem with the whole "talk is cheap" thing. They're always making grand announcements of new initiatives like this but they hardly ever materialize.

The EU is not a delivery organisation. They are not “do-ers”. In fact there are almost zero “do-ers” in the organisation. It’s all “talkers”.

Re: Microsoft suspended the email account of an ICC prosecutor at The Hague

#390

Post by nickdothutton »

6c696e7578 wrote: post #233
nickdothutton wrote: post #81

Europe had a plan after they learned Merkel’s blackberry contents were going to Fort Meade, but they never enacted it. They planned their own MS Office (and email) replacement. Even got as far as scouting data centre sites and identifying first 40M accounts.

Which part of Europe? There's plenty of alternatives for off the shelf, or self hosted mail. An oldie, but still good is gmx for mail.

The EU planned an alternative to GSuite, including mail. The full office portfolio, after the Merkel thing.
Post reply on HN