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Menstrual tracking app data is gold mine for advertisers that risks women safety

cam.ac.uk

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Re: Menstrual tracking app data is gold mine for advertisers that risks women safety

#381
post #344

Can anyone tell me why this would be as much of a problem for safety as they are saying? The only thing I can see happening is easier selling of pads and tampons during a certain phase of the moon. Apparently this is what the article suggests too, that certain things are easier to sell at a certain point in the cycle. It’d be embarrassing if someone knew, not dangerous. And even that much feels weird to me for a very…

Yes, it's not about the menstruation, it's about pregnancy. Having a kid, especially the 1st, is the single largest shift in consumer spending in most people's lives (if they have kids). Aside from all the obvious spending on baby stuff, it predicts buying a house and where they might live, and puts that person (new mother, in this case) on a well-modeled path of buying behavior for the next 18 years. Needs and spend…

The article is a mess, mixing everything up in a single issue, without saying anything about scale or frequency of them happening:

- Targeted advertising.

- Job prospects and workplace monitoring.

- Insurance discrimination.

- Abortion-related issues.

- Cyberstalking.

Targeted advertising is weird thing, but I believe it's not the particularly important issue here. At least I fail to see the severity of seeing more ads for cosmetics (or sweets or home loans or whatever children stuff) correlated with one's hormonal cycle. I'm not saying it's certainly not an issue (or is an issue), but I don't think it's particularly high on most people list of ethical questions to ponder about. Could be considered benign, could be mildly unethical, but most likely not a huge deal. The way I understand it, much worse problems are in the rest of the list.

It seems that - according to the research linked by the article - some people seem to try to step around the legal barriers on discrimination. While those folks can't (legally) directly discriminate on pregnancy status, they use statistical models to discriminate on a probability of such status, based on the data they can currently buy from app developers. Or maybe not the models but a self-reported goal of becoming pregnant - as it's not a pregnancy per se, so I guess they consider it' s a fair game until a lawmaker or a court says otherwise.

Plus there's also an issue, that some governments have different ideas on personhood, and try to equate abortions (and even miscarriages) with homicide, then try to detect "crime" based on this data, is certainly a major concern.

And there's also something about cyberstalking. I can't say I entirely get it, but a distressed mind can do really weird shit.

Summarized:

1. Menstrual cycle data is sold publicly and is not currently considered a PHI.

2. Some people use this data in ways other people could consider unethical.

3. The article doesn't mention how much of it is arguably harmless or less harmful (such as targeting ads based on predicted hormonal changes) and how much of it is severe abuse. It merely mentions the potential of such abuse, but I haven't found anything about its scale.

I could be, of course, wrong about it all. This is just my current understanding of it after reading for a bit. (My initial understanding was much less than this, like GP I just wondered "there are millions of menstruating people, how is data when they have their periods could be possibly so much valuable to be compared to a gold mine?" as IIRC individual demographic and behavioral data is generally of a very limited value.)

Re: Menstrual tracking app data is gold mine for advertisers that risks women safety

#382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I had failed finding an app that was not ad-ridden or oldish, my girlfriend and I are using this (I am copying her values, to know when her period will be). Also contributing some code :)

Can I ask why you use it? We used test strips - they're really cheap and way more accurate as women's bodies aren't clocks. That was effective for getting pregnant. Using anything except some kind of active measures to avoid pregnancy doesn't pass my engineer brain and certainly doesn't pass my wife's Pharmacologist brain (i.e. she actually knows what she's talking about whereas I'm using applied probability theory w…

FYI - many couples track cycles because they are trying to get pregnant.

Re: Menstrual tracking app data is gold mine for advertisers that risks women safety

#383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I had failed finding an app that was not ad-ridden or oldish, my girlfriend and I are using this (I am copying her values, to know when her period will be). Also contributing some code :)

Can I ask why you use it? We used test strips - they're really cheap and way more accurate as women's bodies aren't clocks. That was effective for getting pregnant. Using anything except some kind of active measures to avoid pregnancy doesn't pass my engineer brain and certainly doesn't pass my wife's Pharmacologist brain (i.e. she actually knows what she's talking about whereas I'm using applied probability theory w…

Can I ask why you use it?

Honestly just for fun? I think girl stuff is cool and my partner indulges me. It does truly help with emotional/sexual/physical planning, but a very biological embodied flavor of fun is my real reason.

Re: Menstrual tracking app data is gold mine for advertisers that risks women safety

#384
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a tough guarantee, ultimately you’re placing trust in the device’s security once you limit your attack surface to just local data. So that’s why we’re working on encryption with key custody. Any feature like cloud backups are explicitly opt-out by default so no one is putting their data onto someone else’s servers without knowing what they’re getting into.

(Don't take any of the below in a negative sense! It's awesome you built a privacy-first solution and care about these things, to the extent practical. Below just musings) I assume the attack vector here is more along the lines of 23andme bankruptcy -- if developer is bought by a new corporate entity / priorities change, what guarantees exist that privacy architecture won't backslide via updates? Users shouldn't be c…

This is a wonderful comment, but also ...

Is there a way to prevent future versions of the app from uploaded the locally saved data? Even if none if it was in the cloud to begin with?

That's the route I would be most concerned about.

After that, I agree with the rest of your comment.

Re: Menstrual tracking app data is gold mine for advertisers that risks women safety

#385
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just location, but all privacy sensitive API's. The OS should have built in support for segregating location, contacts, calendars, storage, etc. (GrapheneOS does this quite well with storage scopes). As part of this segregation you should be able to redirect the API to a custom implementation. Thus, my transit app would have access to my real location while Amazon thinks I'm still at home and Pokemon Go thinks I'…

You mention Pokemon Go... this would basically be the end of that game, no? That's probably worth the tradeoff, but worth mentioning.

People are already spoofing location, and it hasn't been the end of the game so far. Or did I miss something?

Re: Menstrual tracking app data is gold mine for advertisers that risks women safety

#387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can I ask why you use it? We used test strips - they're really cheap and way more accurate as women's bodies aren't clocks. That was effective for getting pregnant. Using anything except some kind of active measures to avoid pregnancy doesn't pass my engineer brain and certainly doesn't pass my wife's Pharmacologist brain (i.e. she actually knows what she's talking about whereas I'm using applied probability theory w…

this article got me wondering where the partner app, potentially named drop?, that warns drip user's partners to be more careful in their choice of words, or lack thereof, during that special time where domestic emotions often devolve in to an irrational mess ending with a few days of sleeping on the couch until the drip has subsided

I never noticed any "special times" of irrationality with my partner. I have noticed I got the cold shoulder when I behaved like a teenage boy or didn't treat her with the respect an adult human deserves.

Re: Menstrual tracking app data is gold mine for advertisers that risks women safety

#388

They don't need apps to do this. I sat in a meeting with a data broker in 1998 where one of their managers was chuffed that they could determine menstrual cycles by analyzing purchasing records. And it wasn't hygiene products. Various foods and other spending patterns pop out after a 28-day correlation over groups of women that are artificially "synced" into cohort groups. This invasiveness will continue so long as t…

Can you elaborate? Because even with hygiene products, people buy them before they need them and stock up. And with food, you're often shopping for a week and for the whole family. You put things on a shopping list and don't buy them the same day you're using them, or even the same week. I suspect that even if the manager thought they could determine it, their actual "results" were entirely random. After all, how is…

I don't tend to keep candy in the house. You could track my youngest daughter's menstrual cycle pretty accurately by how often I buy Hershey's bars with almonds. They are never consumed in our household other than during the first part of a particular week. My older daughter and wife don't have quite the same tells though.

Re: Menstrual tracking app data is gold mine for advertisers that risks women safety

#389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure all the data for all targeted advertisement is automatically collected? When I search for things on AliExpress, and then later browse the Internet, it shows me ads for those things. Your solution sounds equivalent to banning all advertising on the Internet essentially when I do a Google search for something am I consenting to see ads for that thing?

> Pretty sure all the data for all targeted advertisement is automatically collected? Sure is. > Your solution sounds equivalent to banning all advertising on the Internet Not at all. We made targeted advertising a central pillar of the Internet before we realized what that meant. We've normalized the notion of being spied on on the Internet at all times, but that's a choice we made (or perhaps didn't make) that can…

>> essentially when I do a Google search for something am I consenting to see ads for that thing?

> ... yes?

My problem with this isn't that I see ads when I do the Google search. My personal problem is that the information is then added to my advertising profile and I see those ads everywhere else, too.

Maybe I was brainwashed by too many Mullvad advertisements. [1] (joking)

[1]: https://mullvad.net/en/blog/advertising-that-targets-everyon...

Re: Menstrual tracking app data is gold mine for advertisers that risks women safety

#390
post #275

While unlikely, I personally believe that advertising revenue should be taxed at 50%. This would do a lot to align industry incentives. Advertising revenue would be looked at less as a free cash stream that can be bolted on everywhere. In this case, maybe the app could be monetized directly instead of whatever the fuck is happening now.

Revenue isn't taxed. Profit is. I suppose you could tax a proportion of your profit at a higher rate, according to the proportion of your revenue that came from advertising. But advertising isn't a "free cash stream that can be bolted on everywhere". It's part of a business model that either is sustainable or isn't. If you taxed it that much higher, a lot of businesses would simply go out of business, because people…

If corporations are indeed people, why isn't their income taxed?

They can have the mortgage interest deduction, just like me! I'm a people too!

Also:

>Is that really what you want?

Kinda

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