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Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

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Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#381

Post by DidYaWipe »

paxys wrote: post #28
dedicate wrote: post #19

Okay, the AI stuff is cool, but that "Containerization framework" mention is kinda huge, right? I mean, native Linux container support on Mac could be a game-changer for my whole workflow, maybe even making Docker less of a headache.

It's impossible to have "native" support for Linux containers on macOS, since the technology inherently relies on Linux kernel features. So I'm guessing this is Apple rolling out their own Linux virtualization layer (same as WSL). Probably still an improvement over the current mess, but if they just support LXC and not Docker then most devs will still need to install Docker Desktop like they do today.

I installed Orbstack without Docker Desktop.

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#382

Post by guybedo »

looks like there isn't much to take away from this, here's a few bullet points:

Apple Intelligence models primarily run on-device, potentially reducing app bundle sizes and the need for trivial API calls.

Apple's new containerization framework is based on virtual machines (VMs) and not a true 'native' kernel-level integration like WSL1.

Spotlight on macOS is widely perceived as slow, unreliable, and in significant need of improvement for basic search functionalities.

iPadOS and macOS are converging in terms of user experience and features (e.g., windowing), but a complete merger is unlikely due to Apple's business model, particularly App Store control and sales strategies.

The new 'Liquid Glass' UI design evokes older aesthetics like Windows Aero and earlier Aqua/skeuomorphism, indicating a shift away from flat design.

Full summary (https://extraakt.com/extraakts/apple-intelligence-macos-ui-o...)

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#383

Post by leoh »

fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #333
cogman10 wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WSLv1 never supported a native docker (AFAIK, perhaps I'm wrong?) That said, I'd think apple would actually be much better positioned to try the WSL1 approach. I'd assume apple OS is a lot closer to linux than windows is.

Yeah, it probably would be feasible to dust off the FreeBSD Linux compatibility layer[1] and turn that into native support for Linux apps on Mac. I think Apple’s main hesitation would be that the Linux userland is all GPL. [1]: https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/linuxemu/

If they built as a kernel extension it would probably be okay with gpl.

There’s a huge opportunity for Apple to make kernel development for xnu way better.

Tooling right now is a disaster — very difficult to build a kernel and test it (eg in UTM, etc.).

If they made this better and took more of an OSS openness posture like Microsoft, a lot of incredible things could be built for macOS.

I’ll bet a lot of folks would even port massive parts of the kernel to rust for them for free.

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#384

Post by [deleted] »

conradev wrote: post #317
tensor wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has had a native hypervisor for some time now. This is probably a baked in clone of something like https://mac.getutm.app/ which provides the stuff on top of the hypervisor.

One of the reasons OrbStack is so great is because they implement their own hypervisor: https://orbstack.dev/ Apple’s stack gives you low-level access to ARM virtualization, and from there Apple has high-level convenience frameworks on top. OrbStack implements all of the high-level code themselves.

[deleted]

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#385

Post by leoh »

conradev wrote: post #317
tensor wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple has had a native hypervisor for some time now. This is probably a baked in clone of something like https://mac.getutm.app/ which provides the stuff on top of the hypervisor.

One of the reasons OrbStack is so great is because they implement their own hypervisor: https://orbstack.dev/ Apple’s stack gives you low-level access to ARM virtualization, and from there Apple has high-level convenience frameworks on top. OrbStack implements all of the high-level code themselves.

How does it compare to apple’s hv?

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#387

Post by worthless-trash »

cromka wrote: post #284
aequitas wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is already a paid alternative, Orbstack, for macOS which puts Docker for Mac to shame in terms of usability, features and performance. And then there are open alternatives like Colima.

How does it compare to Podman, though?

Podman works absolutely beautifully for me, other platforms, I tripped over weird corner cases.

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#388

Post by 9dev »

okanat wrote: post #329
9dev wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. People consistently underestimate the great piece of technology NT is, it really was ahead of its time. And a shame what Microsoft is doing with it now.

Was it ahead? I am not sure. There was lots of research on microkernels at the time and NT was a good compromise between a mono and a microkernel. It was an engineering product of its age. A considerably good one. It is still the best popular kernel today. Not because it is the best possible with today's resouces but because nobody else cares about core OS design anymore. I think it is the Unix side that decided to b…

> Was it ahead? I am not sure.

You say this, but then proceed to state that it had a very good design back then informed by research, and still is today. Doesn't that qualify? :-)

NT brought a HAL, proper multi-user ACLs, subsystems in user mode (that alone is amazing, even though they sadly never really gained momentum), preemptive multitasking. And then there's NTFS, with journaling, alternate streams, and shadow copies, and heaps more. A lot of it was very much ahead of UNIX at the time.

> nobody else cares about core OS design anymore.

Agree with you on that one.

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#389

Post by badgersnake »

hackyhacky wrote: post #188
tensor wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Containerization framework enables developers to create, download, or run Linux container images directly on Mac. It's built on an open-source framework optimized for Apple Silicon and provides secure isolation between container images That's their phrasing, which suggests to me that it's just a virtualization system. Linux container images generally contain the kernel.

> Linux container images generally contain the kernel. No, containers differ from VMs precisely in requiring dependency on the host kernel.

They usually do contain a kernel because package managers are too stupid to realise it’s a container, so they install it anyway.

Re: Apple announces Foundation Models and Containerization frameworks, etc

#390

Post by PhilippGille »

mehdibl wrote: post #294
dedicate wrote: post #19

Okay, the AI stuff is cool, but that "Containerization framework" mention is kinda huge, right? I mean, native Linux container support on Mac could be a game-changer for my whole workflow, maybe even making Docker less of a headache.

It's a VM just like WSL... So yeah.

WSL 2 involves a VM. WSL 1, which is still maintained and usable, doesn't.

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/compare-versio...

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