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The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

happiness.hks.harvard.edu

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Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#381

Post by rokhayakebe »

porridgeraisin wrote: post #348
dm03514 wrote: post #16

For the us, I feel like it’s late stage individualism. This is what happens I think when people prioritize themselves over their communities, I think we have less dependence on our communities than ever thanks to the internet and being able to physically avoid community. We have less interaction than before. We can order grocery pickup and not even have to be physically around people for basic life tasks. We order ne…

> individualism Yes. One good counter-force against this wave is dependence. If you depend on someone for something, or you owe them a lot(I don't mean monetarily), you will not cut ties with them even if you have a temporary fallout. You'll push through it. Yes, this has negative effects (abuse) but at the system level you need to optimize for the majority case not the minority case. One of the things an overly fina…

In fact, the number of old age homes is the best sign of a failing society.

Great insight.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#382

Post by rokhayakebe »

tokioyoyo wrote: post #369
michaelt wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The friends who would throw down for you in a fight at age 19 when you reach age 40, will have families to look after and a lot more to lose than they used to have, like a nice house and a good job or they'll be at the far end of a skype link / international flight or they'll have discovered a new chill side to themselves now they don't have 19-year-old energy and hormone levels and you'll realise you don't want your…

My best friend asks me what I had for lunch on random days. Sometimes I get drunk and message him how I was reminiscing about the good times together. Things don’t have to be as complex as you think. Just appreciating the simple stuff might go long way.

My best friend asks me what I had for lunch on random days.

Now, that's a Friend.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#383

Post by codr7 »

SamBam wrote: post #301
codr7 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did staying at home and taking care of house/children become such a terrible punishment?

I'm confused by how your question relates to the one above it. It sounds like you're saying the person above should feel free to go to the pub frequently because the mom should feel happy taking care of the house and kids without them?

Just an observation; it used to be fine, but these days people talk about it like a wasted life.

I wouldn't mind staying home with children myself, but I'm convinced children need their moms more during early years.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#384

Post by is_true »

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #46
paulryanrogers wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not only modern technology taking up time. I foolishly bought a project house and have spent nearly every weekend and some weeknights doing repairs and improvements. My SO also tends toward time consuming hobbies like gardening and aquariums. Add young children and every free moment in between is precious.

But you see the Amish, they just rebuilt a whole lumber sawmill in only eight days. https://x.com/matt_vanswol/status/1915121027820159414 Your project house was an individual pursuit when it should be a collective one.

Most of my friends don't like doing manual work, they think it's below them unfortunately.

There's just one that really loves to do it, the rest would feel exploited.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#386

Post by [deleted] »

owenversteeg wrote: post #352

I have thought a lot about this, and I think one large cause is low- and zero- effort interactions. Anything that requires constant effort eventually dies out. If someone has to initiate, pick up the phone and text you and invite you out, one of you is going to eventually stop doing that. We used to have lots of low- and zero- effort interactions. You saw people at church, at family events, you run into them around t…

[deleted]

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#387

Post by watwut »

typewithrhythm wrote: post #270
paulryanrogers wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having talked to folks from the segregation era, you may be thinking of red-lining and white flight. As folks realized cities and schools were desegregating many moved out of urban environments to suburbs and rural areas, then excluded POC through zoning. Even if we accept that as the primary cause (which I don't) that would mean cowardice and racism are the root cause. An irrational fear of people who don't look and…

You can't argue your way into making a homogeneous population. The reality is that the groups are distinct, and immediately changes the dynamic from "a facility used and maintained by the group who established it", to "a facility maintained by a third party, to be shared". These do not have equal value to an individual.

The reality was that whites were disgusted over idea that black guy could swimm in the same pool as a white girl. It made them feel dirty. It was really that dynamic, not just abstract "who established it".

There is this knee jerk wish to constantly make that dynamic into something nicer or "normal outside of racist interactions". But, it is not. The same effect does not happen when two groups just merge.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#388

Post by graemep »

typewithrhythm wrote: post #268
graemep wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that was true it would only be a problem in the US. It is not. The same has happened where there never was segregation.

Desegregation coincided with the mass "multicultural" migration initiatives in the rest of the western world. Unfortunately in reality there is a huge difference between a facility used by one group, and one shared between several. Many community facilities become unpleasant when they are anonymous.

Why does the presence of multiple ethnic groups make facilities anonymous? That would only be true if people never knew anyone of a different "race".

Immigration is only relevant if immigrant communities do not integrate. If it was the cause then you would expect a strong correlation between loneliness and populations of immigrant origin. It certainly does not leap out from a quick look at the numbers: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/wellbein...

The timing of the numbers in the paper do not match either. SOme of them happened in the last two years. A bit recent for desegregation to be a factor.

On the other hand the article does mention a lot of far more plausible possible causes: online only friendships, working hours, decline of religion etc.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#389

Post by watwut »

zug_zug wrote: post #64
prhn wrote: post #35

I'm not sure what caused this, but I think the expectations of modern friendship have become unrealistic. Maybe it's movies and TV, where a "close friend" is more or less a non judgemental therapist that will throw down in a fight for you. What is a close friend? Before we can start asking people if they have any we should probably agree on a definition. If you use the Hollywood standard, then probably none of us hav…

>> What is a close friend? Before we can start asking people if they have any we should probably agree on a definition. If you use the Hollywood standard, then probably none of us have close friends. I've come to this same conclusion, but rarely express it because it's possible I'm just different. And I'd even go one step further, I think what a lot of people say friendship is, isn't actually what human friendship is…

I wonder whether you actually watch movies and modern series, because the ones I have seen dont have friendships like you describe in them.

Friendships in movies are neither effortless nor healthy. They have conflicts and personality issues to create drama and comedy.

Like, I don't know what it is that you watch in TV ... but what I watch is much different.

Re: The Friendship Recession: The lost art of connecting

#390

Post by graemep »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #330
PessimalDecimal wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This same effect goes a long way to explaining the abandonment of public transit in the US, and strong preference for private travel in a car.

The idea that multiculturalism is incompatible with a harmonious society is empirically denied by the existence of basically utopias like Singapore. All citizens have to learn 4 languages and there is a huge amount of tourists which add to the already multicutral demographics of the country. Lowest crime in the world, best education in the world. Among the best public transit in the world, etc. What it really is is t…

Singapore is not multicultural in the sense it is often used: different communities have to learn each others languages, as you said, for example. A huge effort was made to create a common identity.

This is very different from multicultural meaning groups having separate communities. That is de facto segregation.

" Compare this to Europe where it's often muslims who try to bring their Burkas and sharia law with them."

I think this is much exaggerated.

Its also not immigrant groups pushing Islamic fundamentalism as much as international funding and ideology that is global.

There are also groups (mostly white people!) who are politically committed to this multiculturalism vs integration.

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