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Don't force your kids to do math

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Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#381

Post by khazhoux »

djeastm wrote: post #327
ctxc wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"something they absolutely hate" is learning to read sheet music, training for skill, practicing for muscle memory. The fruits are reaped when they (me!) get older. Like I mentioned in another comment, I can play along to a song I like, play a song that is a certain memory, jam with friends at a whim. Those are not things I necessarily wanted to do when I was a kid. But the "forced" practice was required as a foundat…

> I can play along to a song I like, play a song that is a certain memory, jam with friends at a whim You can do any of those things without learning to read music. Ask me how I know

Let me guess, you self taught on some instrument?

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#382

Post by khazhoux »

maccard wrote: post #154
laurent_du wrote: post #102

Very poor take. The author clearly has very limited experience with raising kids. Most kids won't do difficult things if you don't push them. Playing music, learning to spell correctly, doing mathematics, and so on. A very small minority of kids will do all of that easily and for the fun, but you can't rely on it. If you don't push your kid to do their 20 minutes of piano every day, they will half-ass it and will sto…

I don’t have kids. The really important part of this is that kids mimic what they see adults they like and respect doing. If their role models spend 6+ hours in front of the television every night, that’s what they’ll do. If their role models are playing music or sport, that’s what they’ll want to do.

You are incorrect, kids don’t necessarily mimic their parents’ interests..

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#383

Post by cylemons »

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote: post #282
bethekidyouwant wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

why does a child need to break through a plateau at anything? Of my five sample size of five, expose them and support them, some things can’t even hook you until your brain grows enough .. The musical one is in a band now the nerdy one likes inhaling solder. I did force both boys to Hockey but just to have passable skills so that he can enjoy that all that comes with the sport as an adult

> why does a child need to break through a plateau at anything? If for no other reason than to teach them that some things are worth persevering for. You can't teach kids to give up at the first sign of adversity...

Then you have to be sure they really would like to succeed in wherever you're pushing them so they truly feel accomplished.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#384

Post by cylemons »

jalapenos wrote: post #377
kQq9oHeAz6wLLS wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why does a child need to break through a plateau at anything? If for no other reason than to teach them that some things are worth persevering for. You can't teach kids to give up at the first sign of adversity...

This does need to be anchored in value though. They should be at least playing a part in deciding what those things are before they're pushed to persevere towards them.

Exactly

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#385

Post by Izkata »

serbuvlad wrote: post #216
somenameforme wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This becomes even more true in higher level maths where programming language style functions would make everything vastly more clear, and easily typeable, than the traditional Greek symbols. sum(x+3, 1, 4) is just so much more clear (and consistent when generalized across other operations) and practically as concise as the mathematical way of expressing that which I cannot even type. Multiple variables would be a bit…

My first thought when I read sum(x+3, 1, 4) was x+3+1+4. Also it should be sum(x+3, x, 1, 4) since you need to encode what the iterator variable is as well.

I thought that was it too, but you're saying it's not..? I've been thinking about it for a few minutes now and I still can't figure out what other meaning it could have.

Edit: Oh wait, someone else mentions map/filter, did they mean this as a combination of range->map->sum and the latter two numbers are the range portion, like sum(map(x+3, 1..4)) ?

Edit2: And now I'm remembering sigma. I think it would have been more obvious to me if the order was flipped and your issue handled the way it is in that notation: sum(x=1, 4, x+3), though I'd still prefer the range notation: sum(x=1..4, x+3)

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#386

Post by alganet »

khazhoux wrote: post #381
djeastm wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can play along to a song I like, play a song that is a certain memory, jam with friends at a whim You can do any of those things without learning to read music. Ask me how I know

Let me guess, you self taught on some instrument?

That seems like a simplistic conclusion.

He could have learned to play from a teacher that doesn't teach reading music, for example.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#387

Post by fakedang »

NalNezumi wrote: post #251
rerdavies wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The really important thing is to teach kids to find their joy. At the end of my second year of piano lessons, my teacher took me into her living room, and we listened to Glen Miller records for most of the hour. And then we had a cup of tea, and she told me, "this is the music that I love. I play piano because I love that music, and I want to be able to play it myself. What kind of music do you like?" I didn't really…

A counter argument is simply the observation that some stuff, it takes time (and effort) before you find the joy in it . Following your recepie, unless (as you say yourself) lucky teacher or wealthy parents, anything that doesn't incite immediate reward will be of low interest. A kid will probably pick up that general pattern too: if joy can not be found in My brother (now an professional artist) told me at teenage y…

> it takes time (and effort) before you find the joy in it.

And the right mentor.

I distinctly remember that for my master's thesis, I had initially chosen a topic that I loved deeply, but getting constantly rebuffed by my supervising professor who constantly berated me and insulted my intelligence led me to not only hate the dissertation topic (not to mention him also), but hate that field which I loved so much.

I later switched topics, to a very different field, under a professor who actually took stride in and complimented my achievements however meagre they were. Net result, we've collaborated on multiple papers together and even after 10 years or so, consider each other friends instead of a mere teacher-student relationship.

I could give multiple anecdotes in other completely unrelated fields, from painting and art to driving a stick. Guides and teachers matter in finding the joy in things, even more so than the time invested.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#388

Post by Tronno »

blitzar wrote: post #354
danenania wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but you don’t have to accept that they’re the only thing on the menu.

Sure, you can take off at 2am and leave a screaming 2 month old child in a room and never come back, because you have been trying for hours to stop it from crying and it is just too fucking hard - just like you can walk out of your piano lesson and never go back. Or you can reach for the sandwich.

If piano lessons is what trained you not to abandon a crying baby, I'm not sure to say.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#389

Post by anal_reactor »

rerdavies wrote: post #166
laurent_du wrote: post #102

Very poor take. The author clearly has very limited experience with raising kids. Most kids won't do difficult things if you don't push them. Playing music, learning to spell correctly, doing mathematics, and so on. A very small minority of kids will do all of that easily and for the fun, but you can't rely on it. If you don't push your kid to do their 20 minutes of piano every day, they will half-ass it and will sto…

The really important thing is to teach kids to find their joy. At the end of my second year of piano lessons, my teacher took me into her living room, and we listened to Glen Miller records for most of the hour. And then we had a cup of tea, and she told me, "this is the music that I love. I play piano because I love that music, and I want to be able to play it myself. What kind of music do you like?" I didn't really…

> The really important thing is to teach kids to find their joy.

As an adult, how can I find joy? I've been trying out various hobbies, but eventually, all of them became a chore. I really miss the feeling of fixating on something and getting lost in it, but it's not coming back. I'm so jealous of people who have a passion, because I just don't.

Re: Don't force your kids to do math

#390

Post by exe34 »

barry-cotter wrote: post #242
exe34 wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

his whole point was that once he found joy in it, he could excel. I'm confident there's loads of things I could be good at - I'm only good at the things that I enjoy putting effort into.

There are tens of thousands of people who love basketball playing right now and only 300 places in the NBA. Most people are average and never excel at anything, ever. Being 4th out of 20,000 is excelling and the proper response to someone using their own freakishly unrepresentative self as an example for normal people is to point out that they have no idea what it’s like to be normal.

and yet, without joy in the process, he could not have done it.
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