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Pentagon to terminate $5.1B in IT contracts with Accenture, Deloitte

reuters.com

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Re: Pentagon to terminate $5.1B in IT contracts with Accenture, Deloitte

#381

Post by whimsicalism »

Spooky23 wrote: post #364
whimsicalism wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the US has at-will employment, save it with the hyperbole. There are plenty of non-unionized jobs people would love to have. Collective bargaining against private actors is fine. There should be no collective bargaining against the democratic will of the people, any more than some random group of federal workers has veto power over law passed bu congress. It is simply not how democracy works.

No random federal workers have veto power over the law. Never did. Having an executive with contempt for the law and the concept of separation of powers and judicial review is a perversion of democracy. The democratic rule of the people is driven by the law. What laws have the republicans passed authorizing these actions?

what specific actions are you talking about?

e: christ, why am I downvoted for earnestly asking a question

Re: Pentagon to terminate $5.1B in IT contracts with Accenture, Deloitte

#382

Post by anon84873628 »

Vegenoid wrote: post #354
FloorEgg wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not paying close attention to all the noise, so forgive me if I am way off base. But aren't they effectively doing a values purge/refinement/reset? Similar to what Elon did with twitter and what few companies have managed to do to transform themselves? My point is (in an effort to maintain a most respectful interpretation) that I imagine the environment is becoming more hostile to people with certain values while…

Even if this is the case, “process” is immensely more important in government and military than in companies because government has the authority, the prerogative even, to use violence, ruin lives, and kill people. The onerous processes are in place to protect civilians. When you shoot from the hip at a tech company, the bad outcome is that a lot of money gets wasted and people lose their jobs. When the federal gover…

Plus, many of the laws government has to follow are exactly about the process by which things are done. That is what helps ensure it is fair, effective, transparent, etc.

Re: Pentagon to terminate $5.1B in IT contracts with Accenture, Deloitte

#383

Post by xphos »

mellosouls wrote: post #283
leguminous wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the reason the US government needs to use consultants is because they can't actually pay enough to hire senior developers directly due to the constraints imposed by the GS pay scales. Often times the top levels of the pay scale aren't even available because there is some rule about how people can't be paid more than someone else. So instead they pay for consultants and all of their overhead. (Of course there…

They still don't generally need to use consultants. Even at the poor rates of pay in many government teams, there are still some decent technical staff who don't just chase the dollar. Bear in mind the salary standard is normal market, not FAANG/SV. Consultants are nearly always used so that managers can say "we went with BigCo, its their fault" when things go wrong. ie. they are generally a political choice rather t…

As a computer scientist who worked as a research scientist i was paid more as a Federal Surfguard (beach lifeguard) than i was doing TS cleared work with the government. The GS scale is fundamental a broken wager. When I gradated college the government was willing to pay 75K for employment. I had offers from private industry as internships making more than that per hour. They were easily 15K off my next offer and that was only because I thought I would like defense in general where the pay is pulled lower because they do so much government contracting. After exiting the defense industry I was making what I was predicated to make in 20 years at the government in 3 years in private industry. Not counting stock options etc.

The disparity is extremely but to be honest I liked the idea of working for the government. There was a lot of drive to solve for the mission and smart people. But the level risk mitigation made working extremely difficult. The government impressive getting people to work as hard as they do and I respect it, they were a good employer but political offices severely shackle it from doing even better work. In wages yes but even in allowing experimentation, political appointments waste a ton of energy and time to. Its like selecting the worst person for the Job in a non meritocratic way and expecting things to run smoothly is a poor idea.

Re: Pentagon to terminate $5.1B in IT contracts with Accenture, Deloitte

#384

Post by saagarjha »

adamgordonbell wrote: post #329
leguminous wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the reason the US government needs to use consultants is because they can't actually pay enough to hire senior developers directly due to the constraints imposed by the GS pay scales. Often times the top levels of the pay scale aren't even available because there is some rule about how people can't be paid more than someone else. So instead they pay for consultants and all of their overhead. (Of course there…

Theoretically, there's some sort of arbitrage happening. There is some department in the government that's very unsexy and has a very real problem that could be solved by a smart finance MBA student diligently working on it. But there's no way that diligent young employee would want that job. Nor no way if he had it that anyone would take him seriously and put his changes in place. He doesn't want to work for that un…

Being paid better is quite sexy.

Re: Pentagon to terminate $5.1B in IT contracts with Accenture, Deloitte

#386

Post by raverbashing »

reaperman wrote: post #342
adamgordonbell wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theoretically, there's some sort of arbitrage happening. There is some department in the government that's very unsexy and has a very real problem that could be solved by a smart finance MBA student diligently working on it. But there's no way that diligent young employee would want that job. Nor no way if he had it that anyone would take him seriously and put his changes in place. He doesn't want to work for that un…

Only place this falls apart is that Accenture / Deloitte are really not sexy. Like being a federal employee at a similar pay scale would actually be more sexy. McKinsey/BCG maybe this makes sense.

You would be surprised at how new grads see these companies, especially those coming from business/accounting degrees, etc

It's not too bad

Re: Pentagon to terminate $5.1B in IT contracts with Accenture, Deloitte

#387

Post by saagarjha »

giantg2 wrote: post #343
leguminous wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the reason the US government needs to use consultants is because they can't actually pay enough to hire senior developers directly due to the constraints imposed by the GS pay scales. Often times the top levels of the pay scale aren't even available because there is some rule about how people can't be paid more than someone else. So instead they pay for consultants and all of their overhead. (Of course there…

GS pay scales can support senior devs just fine. Maybe not the $500k Googlers, but normal ones.

Yes, but sometimes you do actually want the $500k Googlers.

Re: Pentagon to terminate $5.1B in IT contracts with Accenture, Deloitte

#388

Post by Taikonerd »

leguminous wrote: post #279
heisenbit wrote: post #217

Consultants are misused if employed on a constant basis instead of employing enough senior staff directly. There are well known drivers on both sides that tend to promote such an unhealthy setup. What is concerning at the US government is not cutting consulting but at the same time cutting staff and on top creating a hostile environment for senior staff. This is unprecedented and is not something one would do in the…

Part of the reason the US government needs to use consultants is because they can't actually pay enough to hire senior developers directly due to the constraints imposed by the GS pay scales. Often times the top levels of the pay scale aren't even available because there is some rule about how people can't be paid more than someone else. So instead they pay for consultants and all of their overhead. (Of course there…

> they can't actually pay enough to hire senior developers directly

I had the impression that it was also easier to fire contractors. (Well, not to renew their contract.)

If a developer who works directly for the government is underperforming, their boss has to jump through many, many hoops to fire them.

Re: Pentagon to terminate $5.1B in IT contracts with Accenture, Deloitte

#389

Post by nothercastle »

_mlbt wrote: post #238
ceejayoz wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That ship has sailed now, though. The benefits and job security can no longer be counted on. Government is gonna have to compete more on salary, or accept worse candidates.

I said usually for job security because I am familiar with the current administration’s actions, and the benefits have not been touched and would take an act of Congress to change. Trust me, there are still lots of talented individuals who are eager to join the government workforce, even now.

For poverty wages? In my city government workers with families almost universally qualify for subsidized housing. People in my experience get half my salary, and then half of that goes to housing. Maybe some C tier talent goes to government but not without wfh, pension or other benefits.

Re: Pentagon to terminate $5.1B in IT contracts with Accenture, Deloitte

#390

Post by mjevans »

LunaSea wrote: post #346
mellosouls wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They still don't generally need to use consultants. Even at the poor rates of pay in many government teams, there are still some decent technical staff who don't just chase the dollar. Bear in mind the salary standard is normal market, not FAANG/SV. Consultants are nearly always used so that managers can say "we went with BigCo, its their fault" when things go wrong. ie. they are generally a political choice rather t…

> there are still some decent technical staff who don't just chase the dollar They are probably not chasing the job security either.

I heard that __used__ to be the appeal, now that goodwill and soft power has been completely nuked.
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