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Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

bbc.com

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Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#381

Post by vasco »

hayst4ck wrote: post #347

Putting fluoride in water promotes freedom. That sounds crazy, but let me justify it. If you are poor you can't go anywhere or buy anything. You're not free if you're poor. If you are sick, you may be confined to a hospital bed or not feel good enough to do anything. If you are sick you're not free. Putting fluoride in water reduces dental costs and incidence of cavities and therefore tooth infections, particularly a…

The government can give out toothpaste in school, it doesn't need to add things to water.

The inviolability or integrity of one's own body to me is more important than any of this. You have the right to decide what medication to be given to you with informed consent always, or you have no freedom. Otherwise the freedom argument collapses and you stop having reasons to allow abortions, or a bunch of other informed consent situations.

And "knowing better" than poor people "for their own good" usually doesn't go well (for the people).

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#382

Post by abxyz »

AndrewSwift wrote: post #368

People who want to remove fluoride from the water should visit countries where fluoride is not added and look at people's teeth. I live in France and it's just so obvious that people grew up without fluoride — even celebrities try to talk without showing their teeth when they're on TV! I'm all for getting consent in most cases, but sometimes you'd have to be an idiot not to take the obvious win. It's like we were del…

You're misattributing: the U.S. has a perfect white teeth culture that doesn't exist elsewhere. Many people outside of the U.S. have healthier but uglier teeth. Fluoride isn't the reason for good/bad teeth inside/outside of the U.S, it's cultural. Many places outside of the U.S. do put fluoride in their water (nationally or regionally) and have "bad" teeth (e.g: England).

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#383

Post by brikym »

elif wrote: post #70
TMWNN wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is, according to Wikipedia, among a small minority of countries in which a majority of people drink fluoridated water. Various European countries have discontinued doing so. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_fluoridation >

Fluoridation, imperial measurement, 20% tips, taxes added at the register, and circumcision are the weirdest things Americans think everyone does.

They're doing both tipping and untipping.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#384

Post by rocqua »

guerrilla wrote: post #353
hayst4ck wrote: post #347

Putting fluoride in water promotes freedom. That sounds crazy, but let me justify it. If you are poor you can't go anywhere or buy anything. You're not free if you're poor. If you are sick, you may be confined to a hospital bed or not feel good enough to do anything. If you are sick you're not free. Putting fluoride in water reduces dental costs and incidence of cavities and therefore tooth infections, particularly a…

> The contrast between positive freedom, the freedom to do something, and negative freedom, the freedom from interference in your life, is the core political argument in America right now. Interesing take but I don't buy this part at all. The core political argument in the US is epistemological. What's real and what counts as true? There are some axiological differences but I think they are minor in comparison to not…

It seems to be that the battleground is epistemological, but not so much the argument. The difference being that Trump uses 'claims of truth' without any care of how true they are.

I feel the majority of epistemological disagreement is the result of propaganda (not exclusively from MAGA). With only a small bit that is actually a disagreement on core values. Suchs true disagreement does exist, but it is no longer what the political discourse is about.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#386

Post by lukan »

AndrewSwift wrote: post #368

People who want to remove fluoride from the water should visit countries where fluoride is not added and look at people's teeth. I live in France and it's just so obvious that people grew up without fluoride — even celebrities try to talk without showing their teeth when they're on TV! I'm all for getting consent in most cases, but sometimes you'd have to be an idiot not to take the obvious win. It's like we were del…

But flakes of gold are not associated with a lower IQ in children.

"The NTP monograph concluded, with moderate confidence, that higher levels of fluoride exposure, such as drinking water containing more than 1.5 milligrams of fluoride per liter, are associated with lower IQ in children."

https://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/whatwestudy/assessments/noncancer/...

So it is also not clear, if the lower concentration typically found also has this effect.

"It is important to note that there were insufficient data to determine if the low fluoride level of 0.7 mg/L currently recommended for U.S. community water supplies has a negative effect on children’s IQ."

But the solution of just using (cheap) Fluor in toothpaste to apply the Flour where it should go - to the teeth and not the stomach, sounds smarter to me.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#387

Post by pests »

chucky_z wrote: post #376
thehappypm wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The main study I can find referenced to this was based in China where levels of flouride in water appear to be much higher than in the US. Even the study itself calls out 'low-flouride' vs 'high-flouride.' Not 'no flouride.' Utah is going to have a dental crisis in a few years, as there already too few dentists.

40 out of over 60ish counties in Florida already are fluoride free

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#388

Post by eigart »

AndrewSwift wrote: post #368

People who want to remove fluoride from the water should visit countries where fluoride is not added and look at people's teeth. I live in France and it's just so obvious that people grew up without fluoride — even celebrities try to talk without showing their teeth when they're on TV! I'm all for getting consent in most cases, but sometimes you'd have to be an idiot not to take the obvious win. It's like we were del…

Where I live, dental health is good and we don’t have fluorides in the water (we have free, mandatory dental care for children). We recently banned the use of fluorides to make our skis go fast because of the environmental impact.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#389

Post by adrian_b »

quitit wrote: post #274
jdminhbg wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I love about this comment is that one person thought "of course every other country just does the right thing when the US doesn't" and posted it, and then a bunch of other people thought "of course every other country just does the right thing when the US doesn't" and upvoted it, and not a single one of them thought to check what the "right thing" is. Meanwhile, back here on Earth-1, there's no right thing, and…

The missing context here is that the science and established benefits of fluoride aren’t a culture war political football in those countries. These countries largely publicly recognise the benefits of fluoride, but don’t add it because: - Some countries opt for intake via supplementation. - Some have a naturally sufficient supply in drinking water via natural processes. - Some even need to reduce the abundance of flu…

[flagged]

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#390

Post by estebank »

artvandelai wrote: post #372
hayst4ck wrote: post #347

Putting fluoride in water promotes freedom. That sounds crazy, but let me justify it. If you are poor you can't go anywhere or buy anything. You're not free if you're poor. If you are sick, you may be confined to a hospital bed or not feel good enough to do anything. If you are sick you're not free. Putting fluoride in water reduces dental costs and incidence of cavities and therefore tooth infections, particularly a…

Adding fluoride to water was revolutionary in the 1940s, but its benefits have significantly declined since fluoride toothpaste became common in the 1970s. While fluoridation made sense when products containing fluoride weren't widely available, it is much less effective and necessary now. Sure, some countries and communities may still see benefits from it, but widespread fluoridation doesn't seem necessary in many p…

There's a huge difference between "no longer as necessary" and "let's ban it".
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