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Boycott IETF 127

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Re: Boycott IETF 127

#381

Post by defrost »

_t9ow wrote: post #380
eqvinox wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or being gay in Singapore. Wait, holy shit, it was legalized in 2022. Didn't know. Nice!

The law -- a relic from British colonialisation -- criminalising homosexuality between men (not women, by the way) was never enforced anyway.

It's true that since 2007 charges have been laid by the police in a few cases, these have been challenged, and variously overturned or thrown out from court.

So, enforcement was certainly attempted and people were certainly detained for periods of time and forced to defend against charges that were laid.

It's not readily clear how often charges under Section 377 (1860-) or Section 377A (1938-) were laid in Singapore prior to 2007 (or of the charges laid how many cases came to trial and how many convictions occurred).

~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_377A_(Singapore)#Const...

Re: Boycott IETF 127

#382

Post by winter_blue »

gruturo wrote: post #282
billfruit wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And since many US airports do not have facilities for 'sterile transfers', people will require a US C1 Transit Visa to travel connecting through US.

This is deliberate. To my knowledge, absolutely no US airports allow you to transit without going through immigration, and stopovers in the US are very hard to avoid because the FAA imposes a hefty fee to flights over the country unless they stop at a US airport. So it's very expensive to overfly the US without landing, and once you land you can't avoid immigration even if you are just transiting on your way to anoth…

> the FAA imposes a hefty fee to flights over the country

The overland fee is $61.75 per 100 nautical miles (and it's a lower $26.51 per 100 nautical miles)[1]. Is this really that high? Let's say a flight from Canada to Mexico has to cross 1600 nautical miles overland the US. That would cost 16 x 61.75 = $988. Isn't that pretty low? On a flight with 200 passengers, that's an extra $5 per passenger.

[1] https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/international_aviation/overf...

Re: Boycott IETF 127

#383

Post by vasco »

_2d30 wrote: post #332
vasco wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about this article from AP, Monday, April 24, 1933, doesn't say wellness farm, but it also isn't very accurate. Was a cursory search of contemporaneous articles and that popped up, probably not impossible to find more with similar descriptions. Enough to at least understand the message at the time was much softer than reality. > Some 18,000 Germans from all walks of life are being held in the political concentra…

LOL yeah this really paints them in a positive light. If this is the best resource you have for how the Nazis propagandized their concentration camps (this is literally right after the earliest ones opened so you would expect whatever propaganda to be as strong as possible then) as “luxurious” then I’m going to land on that not being the case. > At most of the camps privileges are few. Major Kauffman, head of the big…

You seem to treat this topic with a strange lightness.

Re: Boycott IETF 127

#384

Post by jl6 »

throwawayk7h wrote: post #263
jl6 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those different “definitions” of sex are not the plain and common meaning of sex as reproductive role. “Hormonal sex” is a characteristic, not an alternative conceptual framework of what sex is . Yes, passports should acknowledge intersex conditions and this would be far easier if there weren’t people with unambiguous sex trying to use that mechanism too.

"Sex" is a disguised query [1]. I would not agree with you that the plain and common meaning of sex is that it's the reproductive role (which for many trans people is "permanently sterile" anyway). If you run a clothing store, you don't care about reproductive role, you care about whether someone wears men's or women's fashion. In daily life, a stranger's sex is entirely their appearance: we make a snap judgment to c…

I mention reproductive role (gametes etc.) because that’s what sex is, not because it’s the sole feature of interest. Why we care about someone’s sex is a different matter. Sometimes we don’t! You can sell someone a coffee, and their sex has little bearing on the situation. But sometimes we do care about their sex, because their sex has material consequences. Perhaps sports are the most relevant example to this discussion about passports. The IOC uses “passport gender” to assess eligibility, which is possibly why the current administration is insisting that passports reflect sex, not gender, because sex is what matters to sporting competition. Gender is far less relevant.

There are many other situations where sex and its material consequences matter more than gender. Yes, it’s not gametes that make a man run faster, but there’s a clear causal chain between gametes, sexual differentiation pathways, gonads, and testosterone.

Incidentally, it’s a really weird idea that we can’t tell someone’s sex without looking in their pants, or without some advanced scientific analysis. In reality, outward appearance is extremely highly correlated with sex, and humans (and a lot of animals!) have evolved to be experts at detecting sex, sometimes at a great distance. Visual appearance, gait, voice, behavior, and more, are enough clues to not just make a guess at sex, but to do so with very high accuracy. Probably upwards of 99%. Official documentation is there to clarify the 1%.

Re: Boycott IETF 127

#385

Post by eqvinox »

_t9ow wrote: post #380
eqvinox wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or being gay in Singapore. Wait, holy shit, it was legalized in 2022. Didn't know. Nice!

The law -- a relic from British colonialisation -- criminalising homosexuality between men (not women, by the way) was never enforced anyway.

I am aware of that, but the fact that it was still on the books matters. For one, it has psychological impact, and for another if some police officer in a bad mood doesn't like your face geometry or number of thumbs, things like this can become 'power trip utilities' even if they're thrown out a few hours later.

Re: Boycott IETF 127

#386

Post by _t9ow »

eqvinox wrote: post #385
_t9ow wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law -- a relic from British colonialisation -- criminalising homosexuality between men (not women, by the way) was never enforced anyway.

I am aware of that, but the fact that it was still on the books matters. For one, it has psychological impact, and for another if some police officer in a bad mood doesn't like your face geometry or number of thumbs, things like this can become 'power trip utilities' even if they're thrown out a few hours later.

Those are very fair points. I too am glad that the law was repealed.

I frequently get the impression that the policymakers in Singapore are more progressive than they reveal, but are extremely cautious about loosening up because they don't want to antagonise certain voter groups (e.g. people of certain religious persuasions). It is quite telling that the law was repealed in its entirety only in 2023, one year before the former Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong stepped down from his position.

Re: Boycott IETF 127

#387

Post by _2d30 »

froh wrote: post #378
_2d30 wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fascinating. Never heard of it. What did you think about the source I linked to?

the source is good, the book it reviews is abysmal. spreading it, publishing it and writing it constitute crimes according to German penal code. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volksverhetzung this legislation is a consequence of the paradox of tolerance.

I literally have no idea what you're talking about. This is what I linked to: https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/deceiving-...

Which if you had clicked and read you would see comes from the US Holocaust museum and is heavily focused on Theresienstadt. I was making a point that you're not really interested in engaging with anything I'm writing and are instead focused on just getting your own point across as evidenced by your use of "Theresienstadt" as a point in reply.

Re: Boycott IETF 127

#388

Post by _2d30 »

vasco wrote: post #383
_2d30 wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LOL yeah this really paints them in a positive light. If this is the best resource you have for how the Nazis propagandized their concentration camps (this is literally right after the earliest ones opened so you would expect whatever propaganda to be as strong as possible then) as “luxurious” then I’m going to land on that not being the case. > At most of the camps privileges are few. Major Kauffman, head of the big…

You seem to treat this topic with a strange lightness.

My "LOL" is at people condescendingly trying to prove things like "Germany called the concentration camps luxurious places to hangout and learn skills and rehabilitate, with post office, frequent movie screenings, a swimming pool, nice beds" with sources which repeatedly don't do that in any way.

Re: Boycott IETF 127

#389

Post by vasco »

_2d30 wrote: post #388
vasco wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to treat this topic with a strange lightness.

My "LOL" is at people condescendingly trying to prove things like "Germany called the concentration camps luxurious places to hangout and learn skills and rehabilitate, with post office, frequent movie screenings, a swimming pool, nice beds" with sources which repeatedly don't do that in any way.

I guess anything we don't agree with can sound condescending but I assure you I thought I was relaying accurate information gotten at the place the things happened. I saw the pool and the guide had a whole bit about the Germans doing news stories there to prove how good it was. Maybe the guide was politically motivated, I guess, and I was just gullible, but the second article I shared definitely seems to paint a much rosier picture of the camps than starving people fighting for survival every day. And it doesn't sound surprising to me that people would lie about it being nicer? Is there maybe some deeper point that is annoying you in this imprecision that I'm missing?

Re: Boycott IETF 127

#390

Post by hayst4ck »

cmurf wrote: post #376
hayst4ck wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an administration that openly is talking about annexing Canada, as well as invading panama and Greenland. It's an administration that has literally said "we want government workers in trauma." Historians are actively comparing us to Nazi Germany. https://snyder.substack.com/p/what-to-expect-when-youre-expe... The holocaust started as a deportation effort. Trump reportedly said "I wish I had Hitler's generals.…

In the 1965 book Night of Camp David the president's cabinet realized he was insane because of his fixation on annexing Canada. In 2025 Americans are so anesthetized even the "opposition party" can't say the obvious out loud in public. Let alone the president's cabinet. People voting for a dictator isn't equivalent to 3/4 of the legislatures ratifying an amendment to the Constitution. The People have not given consen…

> The People have not given consent to set aside the Constitutional order.

Inaction is largely indistinguishable from consent.

> autogolpe

No. We are experience Russian backed regime change in the same way we have instituted regime change in other countries, amplified by tried and true propaganda techniques used to propel other authoritarian regimes to power.

> CEO-dictator

This is a deliberate new age propaganda technique using conceptual metaphors (see George Lakoff).

"The CEO metaphor re-frames political rule as a business operation, which makes executive overreach appear logical rather than dangerous."

By getting someone to accept the metaphor of CEO, it manifests consent for executive overreach without having directly assessed how accurate "president as CEO" is as a metaphor.

> In no universe are Trump, Vance, Musk, Thiel, Yarvin on the right side of history.

Complete darwinism/social darwinism is a cogent and consistent moral system. It doesn't produce a world anyone should want to live in, but it is a consistent ideology. Social darwinism was the philosophical core of nazi ideology. https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2015/09/24/hitlers-world/

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