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Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

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Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Christianity is not one thing. I expect that if AGI becomes a real thing, there will be sects that are on the opposite side of that argument.

True, but the point is that they'd have a firm moral foundation for that opinion, as opposed to the secular position, which will be dubious either way, letting it play out in a culture war.

If you are asserring that only Christianity provides a firm moral foundation, I suspect people of many other faiths would disagree.

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#382
post #275
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I recognize that these are articles of deeply-held faith. I am open to the idea of God, I am open to the idea that God is fundamentally mysterious and beyond our mortal understanding. I simply feel that I always have to exercise skepticism regarding the words of religious institutions, though, because it seems to me that power-hungry individuals could use legitimate teachings as a camouflage for their immoral se…

As someone (I forget who), "God is not something you believe in. God is something you experience". In my view, any given religion is just the accumulated ways in which a specific group of people found to handle the aftermath of that experience. Of course, the problem is that you get indoctrinated into a religion before you have a chance to experience It in the first place and end up mistaking the aftermath of the exp…

Try Quakerism!

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah! Perhaps a bit naively, as a Highly Opinionated Person (HOP) on this topic I was ready for this to have something controversial to say about the nature of intelligence. It's not out of the ordinary for even Anglosphere philosophers to fall into a kind of essentiallism about intelligence, but I think the treatment of it here is extremely careful and thoughtful, at least on first glace. I suppose I would challenge…

As an aside, and more out of curiosity, I want to mention a tiny niche corner of CogSci I once came across on YouTube. There was a conference on a fringe branch of consciousness studies where a group of philosophers hold a claim that there is a qualitative difference of experience based on material substrate. That is to say, one view of consciousness suggests that if you froze a snapshot of a human brain in the proce…

And then Marvin Minsky asked: what if you substitute one cell at a time with an exactly functioning electronic duplicate? At what point does this shift occur?

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#384
post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an aside, and more out of curiosity, I want to mention a tiny niche corner of CogSci I once came across on YouTube. There was a conference on a fringe branch of consciousness studies where a group of philosophers hold a claim that there is a qualitative difference of experience based on material substrate. That is to say, one view of consciousness suggests that if you froze a snapshot of a human brain in the proce…

And then Marvin Minsky asked: what if you substitute one cell at a time with an exactly functioning electronic duplicate? At what point does this shift occur?

Sounds like an experimental question. Maybe 99%, maybe 1%, maybe never.

Can you suggest another way to answer your question other than performing an experiment? Can you describe how to perform an experiment to answer your question?

Would you agree to be the subject of such an experiment?

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#385
post #348
post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even if we are talking about the best cameras in the world, they pale in comparison to our eyes Wait, what? Can you elaborate on this? That seems... wrong.

Absolutely! It certainly depends on the metrics you care about. If you want to freeze fast motion, a camera is your best bet. But if you want to see high contrast areas (e.g. looking outside a window from a dark room), you've got a HUGE leg up on cameras. For example, high-end cameras tend to feature maybe 15 stops of dynamic range, while humans eyes can manage up to 24 stops (a "stop" is a doubling or halving of lig…

Human eye's resolution is not uniformly distributed though, and AIs are not limited to just two eyes.

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#386
post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely! It certainly depends on the metrics you care about. If you want to freeze fast motion, a camera is your best bet. But if you want to see high contrast areas (e.g. looking outside a window from a dark room), you've got a HUGE leg up on cameras. For example, high-end cameras tend to feature maybe 15 stops of dynamic range, while humans eyes can manage up to 24 stops (a "stop" is a doubling or halving of lig…

Human eye's resolution is not uniformly distributed though, and AIs are not limited to just two eyes.

That's fair. Dynamic range limitations can also be overcome with additional cameras.

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technology works well for decentralized religions, like Protestantism and Judaism, where there is no overarching authority on scripture, or where there are multiple entities competing for believers' attention that the majority choose to focus on scientific dogma instead. Once there's a central authority at risk from technology eroding at their base, they will be undermined. Like Catholicism, Islam, the Orthodox Churc…

> all 3 of the above examples maintain strict conditions that their respective holy books must not be translated into the local languages Congratulations, you're one of today's lucky 10,000! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glagolitic_script > The Glagolitic script (/ˌɡlæɡəˈlɪtɪk/ GLAG-ə-LIT-ik,[2] ⰳⰾⰰⰳⱁⰾⰻⱌⰰ, glagolitsa) is the oldest known Slavic alphabet. It is generally agreed that it was created in the 9th century f…

> The Catholic and Orthodox churches have _always_ striven to make the Scriptures available to the people in languages they could understand.

The first effort of the Catholic Church to translate the bible happened during the papacy of Pope Pius XII, which began in _1939_. They didn't encourage it before that, but it took the Protestant Reformation and the Council of Trent (1545-1563) to decide that Bible translators would not be prosecuted. The first sanctioned English translation happened in 1582, a full 1500 years and some more after Christianity was founded, in the backdrop of the Thirty Years War.

Also remind me, which languages are these religions' respective services conducted in?

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is well thought out. The "AI Magna Carta" is a stretch, though. Some good insights: 60. Anthropomorphizing AI also poses specific challenges for the development of children, potentially encouraging them to develop patterns of interaction that treat human relationships in a transactional manner, as one would relate to a chatbot. Such habits could lead young people to see teachers as mere dispensers of information r…

It could be argued that the emergence of the web and search engines in particular has established this as a common pattern long before AI was around. I'm not convinced that AI represents a dramatic change to this behavior, though the point about anthropomorphizing AI likely acts as a magnifier.

I'm sure we could extend this farther into the separation of people out of villages into cities and the rise of transactional capitalism.

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technology works well for decentralized religions, like Protestantism and Judaism, where there is no overarching authority on scripture, or where there are multiple entities competing for believers' attention that the majority choose to focus on scientific dogma instead. Once there's a central authority at risk from technology eroding at their base, they will be undermined. Like Catholicism, Islam, the Orthodox Churc…

> […] Like Catholicism […] Interestingly all 3 of the above examples maintain strict conditions that their respective holy books must not be translated into the local languages. Strange then that the Pope asked someone to translate the Christian Bible—originally written in Koine Greek—into Latin, the lingua franca of the Western Mediterranean: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulgate

Even strange then that William Tyndale was executed for his opposition to the church, largely through his translation work.

> Tyndale's translations were the first English Scriptures to draw directly from Hebrew and Greek texts, the first English translation to take advantage of the printing press, the first of the new English Bibles of the Reformation, and the first English translation to use Jehovah ("Iehouah") as God's name.[a] It was taken to be a direct challenge to the authority of the Catholic Church and of those laws of England maintaining the Church's position.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Tyndale

Fun fact, every English Bible you see today draws from this bloke's work. And you all executed him lol.

Re: Antiqua et Nova: Note on the relationship between AI and human intelligence

#390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technology works well for decentralized religions, like Protestantism and Judaism, where there is no overarching authority on scripture, or where there are multiple entities competing for believers' attention that the majority choose to focus on scientific dogma instead. Once there's a central authority at risk from technology eroding at their base, they will be undermined. Like Catholicism, Islam, the Orthodox Churc…

Pretty much everything you said here doesn't align with history. And if anything, Catholics are more inclined to agree that the Bible is a product of human writing and translation because they don't agree with the Protestant doctrine of Sola scriptura. Also, Catholics consider the Orthodox church to be in communion with Rome - they don't consider it a different religion and aren't opposed to the Bible being translate…

There was a time during the Reformation when they were actively burning Bible translations and executing priests who were translating Bibles. And remind me which language church services in the Latin rite are conducted in to this day?
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