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Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

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Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#381

Post by Reubachi »

vman81 wrote: post #377

If anyone needs a palate cleanser after listening to a depressing ATC recording, I can recommend this heartwarming first time solo flying teenager dealing with her landing gear coming off after takeoff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZ5q7Iv5wTM

The amount of times i've wtched this video needing an excuse to feel hype is greater than 10.

Her personal instructor finally arriving ("Maggie it's john") and Maggie starting to normalize the situation/making professonal raido calls really show the power of humanity working through struggle.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#382

Post by AdamN »

venusenvy47 wrote: post #357
windowshopping wrote: post #248

The real question, I feel, is whether the current U.S. government as it exists in 2025 is still capable of continuing to improve things, and whether it's still putting all the lessons of the past into practice - or whether we were just coasting on a combination of luck and the vestigial safety left to us by the diligence of the past.

Considering that the head of the FAA and TSA were forced to resign, and a hiring freeze on air traffic controllers is suddenly in effect, I don't think the current government wants to improve flight safety. https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/air-transport/2025-0...

Reagan fired the ATCs when they tried to assert their rights - can't be good if they think they may be the next in line for DOGEing.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#383

Post by FL410 »

consp wrote: post #264
fblp wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wild to listen to. A) this is a busy atc channel and it's amazing how much complexity is coordinated over noisy radio. B) within minutes of the accident happening (at 11:48) the ATC controller is calmly asking helicopters in the air if they can assist in search rescue operations asking, if they have search lights and direction them. This is whilst diverting and grounding flights.

> over noisy radio I've been told the noise on the recordings is always a lot worse than in practice due to the location of the recording antenna not being ideal. I have no idea if this is correct or not. Maybe someone can enlighten this.

Yep. Radios are much clearer in the air. VHF is mostly line of sight and planes have the benefit of altitude. Approach/center comms can get a bit scratchy at times mostly due to distance, but approach/tower is almost always perfectly clear.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#384

Post by amelius »

nemomarx wrote: post #331
amelius wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

once you know to look at those two specific flights it probably gets easier, yeah. if you were looking at everything in the air at the time I think less so?

I mean, you can get the data from an API, probably. Then you just write a python script to keep an eye on colliding trajectories.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#385

Post by whateveracct »

francisofascii wrote: post #347
duxup wrote: post #82

I sometimes wonder about the value of these news stories on forums and social media. It's all pretty much wild speculation with several potential causes already mentioned on this forum. News important yes, every rando with a few shreds of factoids speculating, not so much.

Here we get air traffic controller recordings, and people who are ammeter pilots. It is more informed speculation than my "normal" friends or co-workers.

It just sounds more informed. Just like all the "amateur" physicists who speculate on theoretical physics posts on HN.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#386

Post by llamaimperative »

ty6853 wrote: post #371
llamaimperative wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Typically, the ones that protect me are good, the ones that slow me down are bad. Easy!

[flagged]

This Waco?

---

PBS:

> Rumors about Koresh's sexual practices with girls persisted for years prior to the ATF raid.

> Koresh acknowledged on a videotape sent out of the compound during the standoff that he had fathered more than 12 children by several "wives" who were as young as 12 or 13 when they became pregnant.

---

Seattle Times:

> Children who left the Branch Davidian cult compound said David Koresh gave girls as young as 11 plastic Stars of David that signified they were ready to have sex with him.

-----

PBS:

> About six hours after the tear gassing began, flames simultaneously erupted at three separate locations on the compound. Audio recorded by the milk-carton bugs suggests the Davidians started the fires, acting on orders from Koresh.

> 1st DAVIDIAN: [surveillance tape] Start the fire?

> 2nd DAVIDIAN: Got some fuel around here?

> 3rd DAVIDIAN: Right here.

Can read more here:

https://www.nytimes.com/1994/02/15/us/tapes-from-sect-compou...

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#387

Post by bradfox2 »

NaOH wrote: post #135
nradov wrote: post #7

Obviously it will take some time for the full accident analysis but there have been quite a few near misses lately due to air traffic controller errors. Flight volume has been growing, airspace near airports is more congested, and controllers are overworked. Eventually all of the "Swiss cheese" holes line up. We're going to need to hire more controllers. Also, it appears that one of the aircraft was a military (not p…

Hiring controllers is not easy. A friend's daughter just went through the hiring process. She graduated from college with an appropriate degree right as COVID hit. Her FAA application wasn't accepted for four years. This past summer she did the four-week interactive online courses. Applicants must pass this and may not re-enter the program if they do not. After that she did the six-week courses in Oklahoma City. Agai…

This is, justifiably, very similar to nuclear reactor operators. Pay needs to reflect the working conditions to attract more people (it does for reactor operators).

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#388

Post by [deleted] »

UltraSane wrote: post #375
perihelions wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it a reasonable filter? I'd (naively) assume that all things being equal, a person who passes a test on the first attempt, is more likely to have a higher innate ability than one who doesn't. Is this wrong?

Imagine if they only let people take the bar exam once.

[deleted]

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#389

Post by vharuck »

htgb wrote: post #306
unsnap_biceps wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://archives.broadcastify.com/44114/20250129/20250129200... contains the ATC feed in addition to the PAT-25 (helo) radio. ~5:41 mark 5342 is given instructions for circling to 33. ~6:45 mark PAT-25 reports Memorial ~7:06 mark tower gives PAT-25 traffic advisory about 5342 and PAT-25 reports traffic in sight and requests visual separation ~8:12 mark tower asks PAT-25 if they have the CRJ in sight. PAT-25 again rep…

I'm impressed by your, and their, hearing comprehension here! Granted, English isn't my native language but even with concentration I struggle to hear what they say.

It's easy to forget how many skills and "heuristics" go into listening. I once read a scale of language proficiency that placed "Can converse over a poor phone connection" at a very high level. When a word is garbled or lost, you have to quickly think of all the possible words that could've fit the grammar and whatever sound you heard, consider them in the context, and choose one or two. Then the next part of the conversation should let you pick one. Then add the complication of not seeing body language.

I forget where I read this. I think it was from the US Department of State, but I can't find it now.

Re: Commercial jet collides with Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan airport

#390

Post by throw0101c »

mapt wrote: post #279
sarcasmatwork wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

"A reality check"? FAA-employed ATCs are like any other non-appointed federal employees - politics should have no impact on their employment and this arrangement is protected by federal civil service laws. Which Trump is roundly ignoring because he wants to appoint every agency with burrowed MAGA loyalists, top to bottom. If you haven't been following what this administration has said and done with a painful degree o…

> FAA-employed ATCs are like any other non-appointed federal employees - politics should have no impact on their employment and this arrangement is protected by federal civil service laws.

"Trump reclassifies thousands of federal employees, making them easier to fire":

* https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/20/trump-execut...

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policy/Career_appointment

> The federal civil service system exists to ensure that hiring and firing decisions are based on merit, not political favoritism. Legal and procedural standards, enforced by the U.S. Merit Systems Protection Board, require managers to provide a reason for taking disciplinary action, give employees the right to respond and mandate that decision-makers consider both sides before taking action against a federal employee. This system is crucial for maintaining fairness; it prevents arbitrary and unjust terminations.

> Before this system was established, many new administrations fired their predecessors’ civil servants and replaced them with donors and cronies. This practice led to instability and inefficiency within the federal government. To address this issue, Congress established merit-based hiring and firing procedures that apply to civil servants who are not political appointees, ensuring that government agencies are staffed with qualified individuals who can effectively serve the public.

* https://thehill.com/opinion/5107846-federal-employees-civil-...

Trump et al seem to want to go back to the system where folks can be hired and fired at will:

* https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/presidential-actions/ex...

Do a search for "Schedule F" for more on the topic.

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