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Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

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Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#381

Post by dcrazy »

numpad0 wrote: post #330
byw wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More so in the Chinese-speaking world and South Korea because the industrialization/urbanization is more recent, so there's rising demand in the urban areas with high population growth, resulting in high prices. Japan's urbanization stopped long ago, and it's not taking in immigrants fast enough, so the urban areas have stopped growing. The mentality refers to East Asia's deep agrarian root that places high value on…

1. Japan's urbanization stopped long ago, 2. and it's not taking in immigrants fast enough, 3. so the urban areas have stopped growing. it's just my gut feeling but feels like each of these three statement can be individually debunked...

I thought the Tokyo megalopolis was still growing due to internal migration, at the cost of depleting literally everywhere else in the country.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#382

Post by somethoughts »

programmertote wrote: post #185
digdigdag wrote: post #35

- Over 50% of the workers flew in from Taiwan to work on this plant and make these chips. - The chips still need to fly back to Taiwan to be packaged as there are no facilities here with such a capability. Made in america is a hard sell. But at least showing the glaring STEM field gap in the U.S. is a start to finally addressing the brain drain.

The 'brain drain' (as you refer to it) stems from intelligent/motivated grads in the US for the last two decades (at least) pursuing more lucrative fields like finance and adtech (re: Google, Facebook). Or some pursue management route (attending big MBA schools and switching to management roles where they climb corporate ladder). In other words, there are not a lot of college/grad students who want to pursue traditio…

My hot take as to the reason EE is a bit of a dead end in the US is that the options outside of the handful of primary employers are limited. It is very capital intensive to run a semiconductor fab, design chips or assemble electronics at scale. Therefore the employer has all of the leverage. The equipment and/or factory worker infrastructure comes first and the engineering teams are just a cog.

Compare that to having all the degrees of freedom as a computer science student to start up a niche mobile app or internet based niche service after working at FAANG for 5-6 years. Even AI infrastructure will eventually go down in price making niche AI first startups a possibility. In finance its the same, as a post i-banker you have the option to start a boutique fund, a niche fintech or just invest your own savings.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#383

Post by slater »

scelerat wrote: post #339
krapp wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless your ancestors crossed the Bering Strait ten thousand years ago, calling yourself "native born" doesn't mean a thing.

What’s magic about the Bering strait?

Usually considered the way that first humans got to the landmass, way back when.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#384

Post by johnnyanmac »

ecshafer wrote: post #286
bnetd wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a somber write-up anywhere as to the future of EE in the West?

I don't know if there is a somber write up. But from what I have heard from a lot of people, is that jobs designing and making say PCB boards and electronic circuits just don't exist. They are all in Shenzhen. Those American firms that have American engineers still, seem to all involve flying to those factories to help fix problems, and are dead end jobs. At least thats my impression.

So basically fits the theme of "we gave up silicon production to cheaper countries and we're shocked those countries have surpassed us"

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#385

Post by souenzzo »

Half of the works are from Taiwan All machines were imported to build the factory. USA can't do anythings without immigrants. China was able to develop its own chip factory without immigrants and without buying machines (because USA blocked the 'free market')

USA lost.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#386

Post by johnnyanmac »

numpad0 wrote: post #321
thinkingtoilet wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even brain drain, America's dominance came from the fact that for nearly a century the brightest people in the world were willing to give up everything to come here. That is no longer the case. Today's Einstein probably isn't going to immigrate here.

Today's Einstein ARE immigrating to US for such positions as finance, adtech and management, ones that explicitly produce no physical artifact.

But not for the hardware that powers the white collar. China is taking those.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#387

Post by johnnyanmac »

PittleyDunkin wrote: post #274
thinkingtoilet wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even brain drain, America's dominance came from the fact that for nearly a century the brightest people in the world were willing to give up everything to come here. That is no longer the case. Today's Einstein probably isn't going to immigrate here.

> That is no longer the case. For all I shit relentlessly on this country and its culture, it's still an extremely attractive place to live if you're well-situated to make money. (Most people are not—hence my contempt for how the society functions. This presumably DOES apply to an "Einstein", if indeed this Einstein wants money.) China still has a way to go in catering to and granting citizenship (or some amenable eq…

>if you're well-situated to make money

so basically, like everything else, you make a lot of money but it isn't a great place to live unless you make ALL the money.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#388

Post by johnnyanmac »

PittleyDunkin wrote: post #351
cyberax wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going through the _legal_ immigration in the US is hell. Even if you're immigrating through a "talent" visa. Never mind regular work visa/GC.

Well, what's the alternative? Live in some poor country with a happy and contented existence? Fuck no, I want money: happiness is for suckers

You have the metaphor backwards. Where do you go if you're a talented American and your own country continually does not want to pay for your talent? It's the brain drain out of the US to worry about, not the influx of immigration.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#389

Post by johnnyanmac »

brickfaced wrote: post #305
thinkingtoilet wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even brain drain, America's dominance came from the fact that for nearly a century the brightest people in the world were willing to give up everything to come here. That is no longer the case. Today's Einstein probably isn't going to immigrate here.

The US didn't win World War 2, break the sound barrier, or put a man on the Moon only or primarily due to immigrant workers. We scoured the country's public school system for the sharpest young minds, sent them to institutions of higher learning with rigorous curricula, and found them positions in industry, government, or the military which made good use of their talent. Fetishizing the "nation of immigrants" narrati…

I wouldn't say most native borns "built" the US. But sure, there are plenty of native born leaders who set the direction towards building such stuff.

Re: Apple will soon receive 'made in America' chips from TSMC's Arizona fab

#390

Post by nailer »

jonas21 wrote: post #133
IshKebab wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spoke to a Taiwanese person and apparently the salaries there are actually quite good, even by western standards (normal ones; not SF). The downside is they have very very long hours (996, barely any holiday, etc.).

It's also highly-skilled, yet very boring work. The way it was described to me is that every major piece of equipment has a PhD assigned to it and their job is basically to babysit the machine and troubleshoot when things go wrong. US PhDs typically have other options and would consider this sort of work a waste of their time.

> he way it was described to me is that every major piece of equipment has a PhD assigned to it and their job is basically to babysit the machine and troubleshoot when things go wrong.

Yes.

"It’s the Most Indispensable Machine in the World—and It Depends on This Woman"

https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/asml-euv-machine-lithography-chi...

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