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Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

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Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#381

Post by philwelch »

pta2002 wrote: post #102
jagged-chisel wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OT, but it fired me up a bit - people that enter the intersection on green or orange awaiting a break to turn left. And then don’t clear the intersection on red. Now they’re in everyone’s way. How do you get them to understand they’ve already “run the light” and just need to move?

This is why I always find it weird that in the US (and a lot of other countries) the stoplights are on the end of the intersection, instead of at the entrance. If they're at the entrance, there's no dillema - you can't cross the light if it's red. If it's yellow, you brake if you have time, but if not, it's fine to keep going - the opposing light is going to wait a few seconds before turning green specifically to avo…

If the stoplight was suspended above the stop line it would be harder if not impossible for the driver to see it.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#382

Post by philwelch »

dleslie wrote: post #205
crackercrews wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> designed with cars in mind, not human beings This is a bad faith framing. The cars are driven by humans. Or in the case of autonomous driving, are driving humans around. I've come up to plenty of lights that had the pedestrian signal lit even though there were no pedestrians. This happens during the day and at night, and is frustrating. Just happened the other day when I was driving around midnight. Not a pedestria…

If the designers were truly considering the well-being of the occupants of the vehicles then they would be designing cities to minimize the time spent in vehicles; which means more than saving a few seconds at a stop light, it means getting them out of their cars entirely.

Forcing people into a 19th century standard of living is not good for their well being.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#383

Post by rcpt »

andrepd wrote: post #260
rcpt wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With roundabouts drivers only look to the left and don't come to a complete stop. If you're on foot trying to cross from the other direction good luck.

Crosswalks before the entry to the roundabout, where drivers need to stop anyway; bonus points for a gentle speed hump. Am I missing something?

What kind of roundabout has a "stop anyway"?

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#384

Post by rcpt »

CuriousCosmic wrote: post #197
rcpt wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With roundabouts drivers only look to the left and don't come to a complete stop. If you're on foot trying to cross from the other direction good luck.

Yep. Hence the appeal of turning the intersection into a roundabout and pulling the stoplights 3-5 cars from the roundabout and only stopping traffic when pedestrians are present (i.e. puffin and pelican crossing style). It gives cars enough time to turn and then halt with a bright red stop light to catch their attention.

Roundabout + pedestrian stoplight is probably fine. I don't think I've ever seen one and I live not too far from where the article is written.

Seems like it's still worse for pedestrians as they have to wait for the beg button.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#385

Post by rcpt »

baq wrote: post #236
HPsquared wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roundabouts aren't great for pedestrians. You need to trust the drivers' signals.

Where I'm from it's exactly the opposite - straight road means you can't trust drivers to slow down, but any obstacle like a big mound with a road in a circle around it makes them pay attention

They look at the mound, not the people trying to cross.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#386

Post by gpm »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #287
gpm wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crazy idea that would be next to politically impossible in North America: Have every traffic light with a countdown also be a speed camera. It'd eliminate the incentive to drag race, would give drivers more information earlier allowing better driving, and would generally make speeds limits actually a limit on roads with traffic lights.

First you have to deal with the issue of cities selling camera data to third parties and using it for license plate tracking and face ID

That's a solved problem in responsible cities, say New York. The cameras only take a picture if they see someone speeding [1], and once they see someone speeding a citation is issued and that's a matter of public record [2] so there is no data to sell.

But like I said, politically impossible, there's a very strong constituency and lobby of people who like cars and like speeding and will come up with excuses for why it couldn't work. For instance New York State restricts New York City to only putting speed cameras in school zones because of that group of people.

[1] https://www.nyc.gov/html/dot/downloads/pdf/speed-camera-faq....

[2] https://data.cityofnewyork.us/City-Government/Open-Parking-a...

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#387

Post by rcpt »

ed312 wrote: post #153
hombre_fatal wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Texas government decided that red light cameras can't enforce the law. That's how car-brained we are. Muh privacy or something.

The core issue is those red light cameras create a persistent database of who is where, which is then sold at a marginal cost to whoever wants it to advertise to/manipulate/track a population. Adding cameras everywhere invites a dystopian nightmare vs better urban design and occasional traffic police would solve the same problem.

"occasional traffic police" have proven ineffective at enforcing the law.

And biased humans deciding who to pull over is a lot more of a "dystopian nightmare" than cameras which eliminate those problems entirely https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2402547121

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#388

Post by Analemma_ »

tantalor wrote: post #141
throwway120385 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With the walk signal there is a brief moment in time when the drivers are doing nothing but waiting for you and are all stopped so you as a pedestrian can account for them in preparation just before you get your signal and make your move. Having almost been hit a few times by drivers making a right turn on red, I can tell you the drivers never wait even if you have the right of way. You'll be lucky if they even loo…

Right on red is (or should be) never allowed during a pedestrian scramble. That's just asking for trouble. The box must be entirely clear of cars during the walk signal.

Unfortunately it seems useless/impossible to situationally forbid right-on-red, drivers just do it anyway. There are several intersections in Seattle with "no right on red" signs for various reasons (poor visibility, trolley intersection) and drivers just ignore them and make the right regardless. I frequently get angrily honked at by the car behind me when I am obeying the no right on red sign.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#389

Post by ajmurmann »

RandomBacon wrote: post #163
CalRobert wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A countdown on a traffic signal seems like a fun way to encourage drag racing. Though it's nice on pedestrian signals.

Is it a countdown until it turns green, or a countdown until it turns red? I think it's unlikely the latter would encourage drag racing.

I'd like to see both so that I can avoid coming to a full stop when it's red and on the other side of it avoid having to slam on the breaks.

Re: Making an intersection unsafe for pedestrians to save seconds for drivers

#390

Post by inetknght »

gs17 wrote: post #257
inetknght wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pedestrians rightfully expect safe walking and biking infrastructure. Not everyone can drive. Most of those who can't drive also cannot afford a taxi or rideshare. Many of them also do not have friends or family who can get them where they need to go, and reliance on others is extremely demoralizing to independence. That says nothing of the carbon cost in fuel, the microparticle cost in tire and brake dust, or other…

> Pedestrians rightfully expect safe walking and biking infrastructure. Cyclists and pedestrians should be considered two separate groups. Most biking infrastructure doesn't benefit me at all as a pedestrian (but it's okay, because the cyclists will still ride on sidewalk instead of the bike lane).

> the cyclists will still ride on sidewalk instead of the bike lane

A lot of cyclists feel safer on the sidewalk because cars do not respect cyclists. It unfortunately does make it more dangerous for pedestrians.

> Cyclists and pedestrians should be considered two separate groups.

Yes, and they both rightfully expect safe infrastructure even if it is separate.

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