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Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

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Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#381

Post by brabel »

kayewiggin wrote: post #137
fakedang wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was of the same viewpoint as you - just look at the militaries! Except in today's world, being a military power is increasingly less relevant after a certain point, while economic supremacy is increasingly gaining prominence. While the West is content with self-platitudes for their "democracy", China has been building strong relationships with a number of countries looking to implement the "China-model", a capitali…

> China has been building strong relationships with a number of countries Number of irrelevant countries. US's allies are Europe, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Canada, Mexico, Australia, etc. 80% of the world's wealth. and 95% of the world's top technologies. > guess where these countries are buying their drones from Soon, not China. China Is Cutting Off Drone Supplies Critical to Ukraine War Effort [1]. China is repor…

Where do you get 80% of world's wealth?

According to the World Economic Forum[1], the USA plus the whole EU make up 29% of the world's GDP-PPP, while the BRICS countries come up at 37.3%.

You also included Japan, Australia, South Korea, Canada and Taiwan, but I find it hard to believe they would make up a very significant part of the difference.

[1] https://www.weforum.org/stories/2024/11/brics-summit-geopoli....

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#382

Post by brabel »

Bilal_io wrote: post #223
yoavm wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP, but here's one I feel quite uncomfortable with: https://quran.com/en/an-nisa/155/tafsirs - "The Hour will not start, until after the Muslims fight the Jews and the Muslims kill them. The Jew will hide behind a stone or tree, and the tree will say, `O Muslim! O servant of Allah! This is a Jew behind me, come and kill him". Other examples from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An-Nisa include "Men are the prote…

> Not the OP, but here's one I feel quite uncomfortable with: https://quran.com/en/an-nisa/155/tafsirs - "The Hour will not start, until after the Muslims fight the Jews and the Muslims kill them. The Jew will hide behind a stone or tree, and the tree will say, `O Muslim! O servant of Allah! This is a Jew behind me, come and kill him". This is not part of the Quran, but a Hadeeth, and the meaning of it is that the Je…

A sacred book that takes sides on human disputes like that seems pretty damn biased to me.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#383

Post by mike_hearn »

cma wrote: post #242
mike_hearn wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to distinguish between the current model and DeepSeek the company. DeepSeek the company can do an OpenAI and stop releasing their weights any time they like. The knowledge and skill is retained. I really wonder how long the current era of giving models away for free can last. How is this sensible from a business perspective? Facebook got burned by iOS and now engage in what would otherwise look like irration…

They would have to pay more to get researchers that don't publish.

I was talking about open weight models more than papers, but OpenAI hardly publishes papers anymore and don't seem to struggle to get researchers. Anthropic are clearly doing a lot of special sauce given Claude 3.5 Sonnet's performance on coding, yet the papers they publish are mostly safety related. So I'm not sure that's really true anymore.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#384

Post by varelse »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #301
sangnoir wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the kind of scale the sanctions make a lot harder to achieve Harder and more expensive, but far from impossible. I doubt they pay more than doubles Nvidia's sticker price, all told. My comment was inspired by recent real-life events; Nvidia got into legal trouble in the last couple of months for turning a blind eye to questionable transactions - if you're curious about the mechanics of GPU sanctions-busting…

That really sounds plausible. They could open a training farm in Vietnam or Mongolia (or even Taiwan, or really anywhere the internet goes) and just use it, the GPUs don’t need to be located in the mainland. The only way to lock down the GPUs would be to just restrict completely to who could use them, and then prevent them from contracting with sanctioned entities. When I was working in Beijing, we definitely had res…

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Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#385

Post by Physkal »

icemelt8 wrote: post #363
kopirgan wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really would like to know what's good bloat and bad bloat like they say with Taliban. To give a random example, Apache http server for windows is less than 12mb download. I used to download Oracle's http which I'm told is based on that, but that's like 1GB++ haven't checked in recent years.

That is such a well-informed inside joke about Taliban, I am amazed.

Would you mind an explanation.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#387

Post by selimthegrim »

jasdi wrote: post #298
Dalewyn wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoever are downvoting this really don't understand that expanding a congested highway merely widens the congestion instead of alleviating it. Software today require several dozen gigabytes of RAM and two dozen CPU cores just to render some simple fucking text because everyone has several dozen gigabytes of RAM and two dozen CPU cores.

This is one of the biggest reasons why China or India are threat to the West. Because their Engineers are constantly in situations were they have to work with much less resources. And they come up with stuff that constantly surprises people for being much cheaper. The western reaction is to then go and buy them out. Its not going to work forever. They have already taken over large swathes of the tech landscape. Even…

You do realize lots of daily wagers in India and China eat from street vendors and rarely cook at home either.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#388

Post by vachina »

dboreham wrote: post #208
FooBarWidget wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why aren't US and allies demonstrably replicating EVs (and other kinds of green technology) quickly? Tesla is still pretty much the only serious player. Why are CEOs of major western carmakers painting a very different picture than what you describe here? Where are the serious EU/US battery makers that are globally competitive? It looks to me like the EU has chosen the worst of all options: put up tarriff barriers…

Western consumers don't want to buy EVs (mostly).

Wrong. Western consumers thinks EVs are for tree huggers and prefer their 6L pickup trucks.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#389

Post by sinuhe69 »

exe34 wrote: post #369
sinuhe69 wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even in their 'classic years', communist states could never provide UBI to their citizens. Sure, the state employed most people outside the agricultural sector, but even so, they have to grade salaries and food ratios. As far as I know, at no point in the history of communism have they been able to provide a basic income without work, let alone a UBI. Until we can automate most production with robots, I don't think a…

my question is what happens when nobody can afford the stuff that's being produced anymore? I understand that communism hasn't worked so far, but if you don't feed the hordes, you can get Luigied.

The "technological unemployment" you mentioned can only happen if robots/AI replace most of the jobs on the market. But then it means that we have already automated most production and therefore UBI could be an option (taxing the machine). Otherwise, there will always be a demand for labor. It's not just production that the world economy is about. I see no limit to growth in services such as health, education and entertainment once basic provision is secured.

Re: Deepseek: The quiet giant leading China’s AI race

#390

Post by luckylion »

kopirgan wrote: post #374
m11a wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? China has political censorship by law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_China It’s much harder if anything, due to the sheer amount of topics censored.

That's what I meant by different sense. Yes. But I suspect it applies to citizen facing things. It doesn't likely hold up research or pressures them into returning POC Viking images. I could be wrong of course.

I'm not sure it's easier to make your products block communication about Taiwan or Tiananmen Square.

If you have to do political policing one way or the other, you'll have to invest resources to achieve it. On the other hand, maybe it's beneficial for r&d because it pressures you to do hard things that your product benefits from, e.g. controllability in ML-products.

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