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A comparison to Waymo’s auto liability insurance claims at 25M miles

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Re: A comparison to Waymo’s auto liability insurance claims at 25M miles

#381

Post by zahlman »

BaculumMeumEst wrote: post #290
CalRobert wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ride my bike several times a day, and I have very mixed views about Waymo, etc. I care immensely about traffic safety (so much I moved to the Netherlands). If you took the world as it is now and left everything the same except that every car was a waymo and there were no human-driven cars left, I would be ecstatic. Humans are horrible drivers and some of them are downright murderous. If every car were a waymo I cou…

It seems contradictory to care immensely about traffic safety but lament the idea of wearing a vest to cross the street. It seems like something that logically we should probably already be doing. Self driving cars are just making it more obvious.

>It seems contradictory to care immensely about [school] safety but lament the idea of wearing a [bulletproof] vest to [enter] the [school].

(Or be subjected to a metal detector screening, etc.)

No, it's perfectly consistent. The argument is that the underlying problem shouldn't exist to any significant extent in the first place, and doesn't need to (and doesn't in many other parts of the world).

A lot of traffic safety issues in North America derive from road design, which has historically prioritized the needs and wants of car drivers above everyone else. It is not "contradictory" to reject a solution that entails doing even more to accommodate cars.

Re: A comparison to Waymo’s auto liability insurance claims at 25M miles

#382

Post by zahlman »

Qem wrote: post #188
mstade wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes a lot of sense, also for pedestrians and other drivers. Having seen these things live in action, it creeped me out to see an empty drivers seat.

> Having seen these things live in action, it creeped me out to see an empty drivers seat. I wonder if the safety gains could be just due to people being creeped out around them, and behaving more cautiously. Perhaps results would be different if they carried mannequins simulating a real driver in the wheel.

Couldn't they just put a passenger in that seat?

Re: A comparison to Waymo’s auto liability insurance claims at 25M miles

#383

Post by ASalazarMX »

underdeserver wrote: post #349
carteazy wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a signal light mounted on the top of the vehicle. When it detects a pedestrian in a crosswalk or waiting to cross, it lights up with a little ‘human walking’ picture. It makes it very clear to everyone it sees you.

Does it see you or is there someone else it's seeing?

Waymo, take note: instead of displaying a human walking, display googly eyes glancing at pedestrians.

Re: A comparison to Waymo’s auto liability insurance claims at 25M miles

#384

Post by tim333 »

heroprotagonist wrote: post #310
ddalex wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if we ban cars now we may still have a chance to save the horse industry

No, we won't need horse drivers either. But you might decide to build in enough additional taxes on the self-driving vehicles to cover at least the state's increased costs in terms of unemployment, medical, and services. This way all those people riding the fancy new cars are the ones subsidizing the new industry's hidden costs instead of every tax payer.

What is the normal annual turnover in those 2.3 million drivers? 20% perhaps? I doubt self driving cars are going to replace 20% a year - they'll take many years to roll out. So it'll just be less people entering the field rather than mass layoffs.

Re: A comparison to Waymo’s auto liability insurance claims at 25M miles

#385

Post by zahlman »

acuozzo wrote: post #372
milicat wrote: post #196

Still worse than public transport, wastes more resources and endangers cyclists and pedestrians. I have yet to see anything that deserves to be called progress in self-driving. Yet another scam to sell more wasteful, inefficient vehicles.

> Still worse than public transport I agree that the US needs better public transportation, but most of the US is not a city. If the nearest grocery store is 30 miles away and the nearest bus stop is several miles away from your home, then using public transportation turns this into a half-day affair.

At least 80% of the US population is considered urban (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urbanization_in_the_United_Sta...).

Re: A comparison to Waymo’s auto liability insurance claims at 25M miles

#386

Post by zahlman »

wiz21c wrote: post #3

So one day my car insurance company will tell me: "you have to pay us more because you are driving yourself".

Yes, more than the owner of the self-driving car.

No, not more than you currently pay, because you haven't become more at risk of collision than you are now.

Re: A comparison to Waymo’s auto liability insurance claims at 25M miles

#387

Post by tim333 »

anal_reactor wrote: post #169
heroprotagonist wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The future is bright. Ask the 2.3 million employed drivers in the United States how the future looks. Because pretty soon, they'll all need to be doing something else. And I don't see a technology that will open up 2.3 million jobs for them to move into, or training initiatives to support them while they shift professions. The future _could_ be bright, if we approach AI right, and build the social safety net to sof…

Hard agree. Soviet Union built its economy around making sure that everyone had a job and, as a result... oh wait, nevermind.

That was one of the few aspects of their economy which was probably good.

Re: A comparison to Waymo’s auto liability insurance claims at 25M miles

#388

Post by zahlman »

kmarc wrote: post #40
wiz21c wrote: post #3

So one day my car insurance company will tell me: "you have to pay us more because you are driving yourself".

My favorite brain picker question: What year would the EU* ban human driven cars on public roads? That's it. Million different opinions ranging from "never" to "within a couple decades for sure", weak, strong opinions, and of course many interesting topics to branch out into. *: sometimes I ask with US, or particular countries, it doesn't really matter for the sake of conversation. Fun fact: people working in automot…

A change like this is entirely unpredictable from here, because it would be driven (pun intended) far more by political processes than any objective safety consideration.

Re: A comparison to Waymo’s auto liability insurance claims at 25M miles

#389

Post by zahlman »

graemep wrote: post #171
qnleigh wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Horse accidents aren't a leading cause of death though. Seems like it'll depend on how thoroughly self-driving becomes a thing of the past on its own.

They were a leading cause of death when they were a common mode of transport. Riding a horse is very dangerous. Its just regarded as an acceptable risk (its something many people encourage kids to do) for cultural and social reasons. A British government scientific advisor was fired for pointing out that riding a horse carries about 30 times the risk of a "serious adverse effect" as taking ecstasy.

>A British government scientific advisor was fired for pointing out that riding a horse carries about 30 times the risk of a "serious adverse effect" as taking ecstasy.

Could we have a link for this one please?

Re: A comparison to Waymo’s auto liability insurance claims at 25M miles

#390

Post by tim333 »

rglullis wrote: post #328
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Big Tech can't be trusted Trust, trade and mutually-beneficial coëxistence need not go hand in hand.

> mutually-beneficial coëxistence Their side is benefiting a lot more than ours, and the few benefits that we might end up seeing come with a good amount of harm inflicted by them.

I like my tech toys - the usual macbook, iphone, internet etc. provided by big tech. I'm not sure how they are supposed to have harmed me?
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