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UK's Online Safety Act comes into force

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Re: UK's Online Safety Act comes into force

#381
post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In a world ( well US at least ) where the trend is moving to deregulate things. UK decided to quite literally regulate everything. This is sad. This is being pushed by banks and tech billionaires, including the world's richest man. Why is that considered a good trend for regular people?

I dont think Banks and Finance should get less regulations ( May be in certain areas ). But there are certainly industry and sectors that needs less regulation. To put it in a software development terms, a lot of laws and regulations need a major refactor.

For example?

Re: UK's Online Safety Act comes into force

#382
post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You want to give the power to the people that make the laws to also decree what is true or not? This is going to turn out well. I don’t think that having institutions that can legislate the truth is compatible with free and just societies. Political power and democratic majorities do not decide the truth. if you think otherwise I don’t believe there is common ground to be found.

So why is the alternative, which is having multi-billionaires having all that power to decree what is true/acceptable better?

They don't, no billionaire can put you in jail for believing/saying something different that they want you to believe.

And let me get this straight, you think that having an institution that legislates the truth is protection against billionaires usurping that power? Who has the money to lobby those institutions to do their bidding? Me and you or the billionaire?

Re: UK's Online Safety Act comes into force

#383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your position is that we should allow criminals to launder the proceeds of violent and organised crime (with all the victims it causes) into the legitimate economy because…

Your response is similar to someone who opposes privacy activists and their fight for E2E encryption saying "so your position is that children should be sexually exploited online". It's an absurd caricaturization of a nuanced set of arguments with deeper ramifications. No, a person who opposes heavy-handed, invasive KYC and AML laws does not argue that genuine organized crime figures and terrorists should do however…

>> So your position is that we should allow criminals to launder the proceeds of violent and organised crime

> Your response is similar to someone who opposes privacy activists and their fight for E2E encryption saying "so your position is that children should be sexually exploited online".

Re-read my accusation. I never stated that you support committing crimes, I stated that you believe that, once the crime is committed, the money can be entered into the legitimate system.

With that said, let's look at your clarification:

> No, a person who opposes heavy-handed, invasive KYC and AML laws

> their transactions shouldn't be designed in such a way that it also penalizes the vast majority of people

I need to see evidence that the "vast majority" of people are being "penalized" by this system. The most "inconvenience" I ever faced was having to provide bank statements when applying for a mortgage to prove the deposit was legitimately my money. There was a post just last week from patio11 that makes me doubt your claim that the "vast majority" of people are inconvenienced by AML. In addition, I watched this video by a former financial services advisor [1] that also suggests to me that your claims are wildly overblown.

> Also, like many other kinds of privacy, financial privacy should be a right that isn't exclusive to government black budgets and well-connected elites.

Weirdly "well-connected elites" are the people most inconvenienced by AML, KYC and PEP regulations (see above references), so I think your grasp of the issue is not aligned with reality.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAFlRSftffc

Re: UK's Online Safety Act comes into force

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your response is similar to someone who opposes privacy activists and their fight for E2E encryption saying "so your position is that children should be sexually exploited online". It's an absurd caricaturization of a nuanced set of arguments with deeper ramifications. No, a person who opposes heavy-handed, invasive KYC and AML laws does not argue that genuine organized crime figures and terrorists should do however…

>> So your position is that we should allow criminals to launder the proceeds of violent and organised crime > Your response is similar to someone who opposes privacy activists and their fight for E2E encryption saying "so your position is that children should be sexually exploited online". Re-read my accusation. I never stated that you support committing crimes , I stated that you believe that, once the crime is com…

>Re-read my accusation. I never stated that you support committing crimes

No, you said essentially exactly that, that a person opposing AML and KYC is automatically supporting "scary" crime:

"So your position is that we should allow criminals to launder the proceeds of violent and organised crime"

The evidence of many, many people being penalized by AML and KYC is abundant. Either you're deliberately being obtuse or just haven't paid attention. On this site alone, posts and attending comments very, very regularly appear describing the numerous ways in which ordinary people and small businesses face financial difficulties and account freezes explicitly because of AML rules, sometimes in their worst, entirely algorithmic forms. This has applied with bank accounts, payment processing firms and perhaps most infamous of all, Paypal, which is almost universally famous for its bullshittery on freeing "suspicious" funds and transactions.

You saying that because you've had no problems, then there probably is no problem is like someone who's never personally been harassed by the police while driving saying that reports of police brutality against marginalized individuals are probably absurd. Good for you for turning anecdote into evidence.

Patio11's post, which I've seen, also does no favors to your argument. Using a mountain of verbiage, it elaborates how and why the crap I describe happens. The post also seems to justify the banks that do it as poor victims of something that they're obviously complicit in for the sake of their profitable bottom lines (since it's easier to just freeze someone out with no explanation than actually devote resources to better, more transparent support for customers who find themselves shafted by some mandated financial suspicion process)

If you really think that well connected elites are especially hamstrung by AML, KYC and PEP regulations, you should really take a closer look at several major financial leaks such as the Panama Papers and others.

Re: UK's Online Safety Act comes into force

#385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> So your position is that we should allow criminals to launder the proceeds of violent and organised crime > Your response is similar to someone who opposes privacy activists and their fight for E2E encryption saying "so your position is that children should be sexually exploited online". Re-read my accusation. I never stated that you support committing crimes , I stated that you believe that, once the crime is com…

>Re-read my accusation. I never stated that you support committing crimes No, you said essentially exactly that, that a person opposing AML and KYC is automatically supporting "scary" crime: "So your position is that we should allow criminals to launder the proceeds of violent and organised crime" The evidence of many, many people being penalized by AML and KYC is abundant. Either you're deliberately being obtuse or…

> The evidence of many, many people being penalized by AML and KYC is abundant.

Then provide evidence that it's affecting 99% or even just "the vast majority" of people.

> You saying that because you've had no problems, then there probably is no problem is like someone who's never personally been harassed by the police while driving saying that reports of police brutality against marginalized individuals are probably absurd. Good for you for turning anecdote into evidence.

No, I'm saying "I had no problems, therefore the claim that the 'vast majority' or '99%' of people have this problem will need to be substantiated."

> Patio11's post, which I've seen, also does no favors to your argument. Using a mountain of verbiage, it elaborates how and why the crap I describe happens.

I never said it doesn't happen. I specifically said it doesn't happen to "the vast majority" or "99%" of people. Patio11's post is very clear that, by definition, this does not happen to "the vast majority" of people.

> If you really think that well connected elites are especially hamstrung by AML, KYC and PEP regulations

I posted a link from a financial advisor that explains clearly that this is exactly what happens. In response, you have yet to provide evidence that these regulations affect the vast majority of people in any meaningful way.

Re: UK's Online Safety Act comes into force

#386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The purpose of the system is what it does." 99% of people are not drug dealers, yet we still experience the deadweight loss of KYC and AML. Therefore AML exists because agents of the state like to screw with us, waste our time, and steal our cash. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_wha...

What a confusing quote. My bicycle recently got a puncture. Is the purpose of my bicycle to get punctures?

If that was defacto the only thing your bicycle ever did, then yes I guess.

Re: UK's Online Safety Act comes into force

#387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As I understand things, MPs who are on Twitter regularly get anonymous threats of rape, murder etc https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-63330885 - credible threats, with two MPs murdered in the last decade. 1. Aren’t such threats already covered by existing laws? 2. They weren’t murdered on Twitter, so I fail to see how the Online Safety Act would have helped prevent this.

> They weren’t murdered on Twitter, so I fail to see how the Online Safety Act would have helped prevent this. I mention that because in some online communities threats of rape and murder are bandied about jokingly. That 12 year old on Fortnite voice chat isn't really going to fuck your mom! That twitter joke trial where someone threatened to blow up an airport was ridiculous. Some might wonder - why can't these twit…

Wouldn't it be easier to get the jump on them by not threatening them in the first place? How does stopping the verbal threat also stop the real life attack?

Not to say that I wish harm on anyone or think anyone deserves to be threatened. The point is more that if the reasoning for this is as you say, then the laws they're putting in place don't really make sense. It's like if someone was going around poisoning the water supply and they outlawed talking about it instead of just protecting the water supply.

Re: UK's Online Safety Act comes into force

#388
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

besides big tech i assume it will push more people underground (this is what i would do). and VPNs will get (yet another) big boost. myopic governments pushed by myopic voters are apparently the new norm.

Understand that 99% of VPNs can be trivialy shut down if they wanted. The loophole is tolerated. For now.

It will be tolerated for a long goddamn time though given how useful VPNs are for corporate security.

Re: UK's Online Safety Act comes into force

#389
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it inevitable that we should continually erode one's right to privacy?

Because pedophiles and terrorists exist and this is why we can't have nice things.

No we can't have nice things because of fascist lackies who use any excuse. If terrorists and pedophiles somehow didn't exist it would be spying or organized crime.
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