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New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

washingtonpost.com

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Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#381

Post by shadowgovt »

stickfigure wrote: post #342
legitster wrote: post #323

> The two sides negotiated until late Sunday. The sticking points in recent days were over whether they could get a “just cause” provision in their contract, which means workers can be terminated only for misconduct or another such reason; pay increases and pay equity; and return-to-office policies. This seems like a LOT of issues that still need to be hammered out. It would be one thing if they were disagreeing abou…

> workers can be terminated only for misconduct or another such reason This is such a weird request for technology workers. You want to work with low-performing coworkers?

Ages ago, I spoke with someone who had experience doing union organizing in the steel industry about why tech workers didn't unionize.

I told him that the first step would be for tech workers to stop thinking that their greatest competition is other tech workers.

(Flip the question: "If your coworkers are low-performing but the union prevents the company from firing them, why don't you just go form your own company with your three closest buddies and compete? That's the dream, right?")

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#382

Post by gruez »

JohnMakin wrote: post #302
gruez wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can’t help but think those people don’t understand that $100k is very much the new $45k of the 2000s, and has much less purchasing power than the latter did at the time. False. $45k in 2005 is only $73k today, when adjusted for inflation[1]. Even if you use the most generous interpretation of "2000s" to mean 2000, that's only $82k. [1] https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

measures of core inflation that sites like this use leave out many things that massively impact purchasing power - namely food, fuel, and interest rates. When factoring these in, the gp comment is quite reasonable, as those costs have soared in the last 20 years for the typical household.

>measures of core inflation that sites like this use leave out many things that massively impact purchasing power - namely food, fuel,

Those are literally part of the CPI.

>interest rates

The "C" in "CPI" stands for consumer. Unless you're taking out loans to buy your groceries, interest rates shouldn't be a factor on your expenditures.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#383

Post by dehrmann »

legitster wrote: post #323

> The two sides negotiated until late Sunday. The sticking points in recent days were over whether they could get a “just cause” provision in their contract, which means workers can be terminated only for misconduct or another such reason; pay increases and pay equity; and return-to-office policies. This seems like a LOT of issues that still need to be hammered out. It would be one thing if they were disagreeing abou…

> Striking during election week is kind of a crappy move to pull

Siblings are doubting this, but you can think of it like price gouging. It's the right behavior for extracting maximum value, but it burns a lot of trust, and that's important for a long-term business arrangement. It's playing the short game when they should be playing the long game.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#384

Post by _heimdall »

tzs wrote: post #362
_heimdall wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost of living has gotten really insane today compared to a couple decades ago. Its pretty easy to go to college on loans and rack up $150k in debt for an average 4-year degree. Its easy to spend $35k-$50k on a new car, even 10 year old cars in good shape are $10k-$15k. Housing costs vary a lot more by area, but I think most would agree its extremely expensive these days. The idea that a young family could have $5,00…

> Its pretty easy to go to college on loans and rack up $150k in debt for an average 4-year degree. It isn't easy for a 4-year degree. To get to that level generally requires law school or medical school debt or an unfunded graduate degree. For 4-year degrees around 80% of students graduate with less than $30k in debt. For public schools only 7% of graduates have debt above $50k. For private nonprofit schools 12% hav…

The University of Alabama has estimates cost for in-state attendance of roughly $34k per year [1]. That is their general tuition unrelated to what school/department or degree you are there for.

That does include estimates for housing, food, books, etc so there's wiggle room especially if you have family near by and live at home.

For anyone going to school entirely on loans though, you wouldn't make it a year with only $30k in debt.

[1] https://afford.ua.edu/cost/

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#385

Post by Eumenes »

stickfigure wrote: post #342
legitster wrote: post #323

> The two sides negotiated until late Sunday. The sticking points in recent days were over whether they could get a “just cause” provision in their contract, which means workers can be terminated only for misconduct or another such reason; pay increases and pay equity; and return-to-office policies. This seems like a LOT of issues that still need to be hammered out. It would be one thing if they were disagreeing abou…

> workers can be terminated only for misconduct or another such reason This is such a weird request for technology workers. You want to work with low-performing coworkers?

[flagged]

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#386

Post by mediaman »

drawkward wrote: post #347
stickfigure wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> workers can be terminated only for misconduct or another such reason This is such a weird request for technology workers. You want to work with low-performing coworkers?

Seems like a hiring problem, not a firing problem.

Hiring consistently high performing employees is not a solved problem.

Making it hard to fire low performers results in low performing teams, and there are no reliable solutions to this.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#387

Post by bloomingkales »

yoyohello13 wrote: post #331
legitster wrote: post #323

> The two sides negotiated until late Sunday. The sticking points in recent days were over whether they could get a “just cause” provision in their contract, which means workers can be terminated only for misconduct or another such reason; pay increases and pay equity; and return-to-office policies. This seems like a LOT of issues that still need to be hammered out. It would be one thing if they were disagreeing abou…

> Striking during election week is kind of a crappy move to pull. That’s leverage. Striking during a time when the business doesn’t care is a dumb move.

Let me correct you, this will be election month at minimum.

The NYT kind of brings this kind of heat on itself because it has shifted from being just the paper of record over to an institution to the current definition of progressivism. You can only really do this union kinda stuff against self-important institutions. Which developer is ever going to attempt this on Accenture? They are straight up and honest about their business, which is they are trying to rake profits from connecting developers with companies - whatever it takes, whoever, from wherever, at whatever price is profitable.

The Times adorned itself as something more than a business, a special kind of business, a business that fights for something. So there you go, live up to it I guess.

Here is some of the content that the NYTimes focuses on:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/21/opinion/starbucks-union-s...

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#388

Post by miltonlost »

gruez wrote: post #359
miltonlost wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>The default for the US is "at-will employment", which means that your employer can fire you at any time, no reason needed. >> That seems... fine? In most transaction neither party needs to give "just cause" to terminate a contract. You like having a sword over your neck at all times that an employer can just swing and take away your salary and your health insurance for any reason at all?

Did you stop reading there and not the subsequent sentence? >Getting fired is disruptive to someone's finances that some notice/severance would be justified

Did you stop reading there and not the subsequent independent clause?

> but "you have to give just cause" (which in practice, means multiple formal write-ups and several months of PIP, even in places without a union contract) seems excessive.

You still said requiring "just cause" is excessive. So you still want an "at-will" sword over your head.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#389

Post by shkkmo »

datavirtue wrote: post #360
yoyohello13 wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Striking during election week is kind of a crappy move to pull. That’s leverage. Striking during a time when the business doesn’t care is a dumb move.

[flagged]

> Would a business battle with any other partner like this?

Regularly. One striking example is that way our monopsonies treat often treat their suppliers.

Re: New York Times Tech Guild goes on strike

#390

Post by cool_dude85 »

datavirtue wrote: post #360
yoyohello13 wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Striking during election week is kind of a crappy move to pull. That’s leverage. Striking during a time when the business doesn’t care is a dumb move.

[flagged]

If using what leverage you have is so ridiculous, a suggestion to NYT management: agree to every contract provision on a temporary basis, and continue ongoing negotiations with the union which provisions to take away in the permanent contract.

That would end some of the leverage the NYT has and level the playing field for fruitful negotiations.

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