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New iMac with M4

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Re: New iMac with M4

#381

Post by coconut08 »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #219
simonw wrote: post #144

As someone who mucks around with running LLMs and other large models on my computer the 32GB maximum RAM is a show-stopper for me. I'm on a M2 with 64GB at the moment and I'm already regretting not going for 96 or even 128. I want to be able to run a large model AND other apps at the same time.

I really wish that "elite" LLM folks like yourself or many others in the field would just abandon apple/mac. Yes, they make better laptops from a hardware perspective. No, M series chips are not actually competitive with Nvidia hardware on anything except cheap (and relatively slow) inference of big models. The fact that windows laptops are considered DOA despite the insane amount of inertia behind Nvidia GPUs is jus…

macbook pros are by far the best device you can get for running local llms. first of all nvidia gpu's have extremely limited vram relative to the 100+gb afforded to macbook pros. second you cant take an llm server on the subway with you.

until you can show me small nvidia laptop with 128gb of vram and 20 hours of battery life, i'll keep using my macbook.

Re: New iMac with M4

#382

Post by Brian_K_White »

dijit wrote: post #128
epolanski wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just reminded me of how stupid the plug beneath the MM was...You never needed to charge it, till you needed it and couldn't use the mouse.

There are so many legitimate reasons to hate the magic mouse. Ergonimics, the polling rate, the way the glass gets greasy, the scratchy hard plastic on the bottom. Truly, inferior to the Logitech MX Master in all ways except looks. (which is subjective). But it takes literally a few seconds to get a days worth of charge out of the mouse, Apple clearly don't want you to leave it plugged in to use as a wired mouse: why…

There are so many lulu ideas in this comment that don't hold up to the simplest examination.

Plugging in for a few seconds to get a days worth of charge is a stupid thing to actually require or consider normal.

I also want to use my mouse tomorrow, and even the next day, and do so without having to plan ahead "today I will leave my mouse plugged in overnight because I can tell by clairvoyance that it is about to run out" or "I have been tracking the calender like a menstrual cycle and it's time, tonight is the night!" or "I have set up a sheduled alarm on my wonderful Apple Watch to remind me to go look at the settings somewhere to check the mouse battery level and see if it's time to charge tonight"...

And if you don't plan, then you have a few choices, charge for a minute and have to do it again without warning in 2 days, a constant stream of unplanned forced trips to the coffee maker, or just charge for 30 seconds every single day as a part of your routine, or stop and wait for a full charge on the spot for however long that is, or the worst of both worlds, get on with your day by charging for a minute now, and then don't fail to remember to plug it back in before leaving several hours of busy-ness later, which you absolutely will of course.

There is no version of any of that that is remotely convenient or sensible, and certainly not an upgrade from every other mouse in the world. There is no version of this that isn't patently ridiculous. You can work around it and tolerate it because it's not as bad as having to dig ditches for a living. If there was something about mice that the tech just didn't exist for it to work any other way, then sure it's possible to live with, because humans are adaptable. But it's not good, and it's not better than the already norm for $2 mice sice 20 years ago.

It's baffling weird to even try.

Re: New iMac with M4

#383

Post by neilalexander »

wongarsu wrote: post #315
stouset wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And frankly, the “upgradeability” of most desktops is a myth in my experience. By the time I’ve ever wanted to upgrade a Windows or Linux PC, a new CPU probably isn’t going to fit into the same socket as the one I had so now I need a new motherboard too. I probably want a new GPU if it was a gaming PC and if it wasn’t I would be using an integrated GPU anyway. I think the only thing I’ve ever kept from an “upgrade” w…

If you want a new CPU after a decade it's absolutely as you describe: you need a new mainboard and probably new memory (DDR5 just came out), and end up keeping only the case, drive, case fans and PSU, if that. For other components it mostly works. You can smoothly upgrade from 8GB RAM all the way to 128GB, get a new GPU, whatever the current WiFi standard is, more silent cooling, more, bigger or faster drives, etc. I…

You can hit a RAM limit on some lower-end motherboards quite quickly depending on the memory controller and you might only get so far with GPUs as well depending on the type of PCIe slots.

Re: New iMac with M4

#385

Post by beAbU »

simonw wrote: post #144

As someone who mucks around with running LLMs and other large models on my computer the 32GB maximum RAM is a show-stopper for me. I'm on a M2 with 64GB at the moment and I'm already regretting not going for 96 or even 128. I want to be able to run a large model AND other apps at the same time.

I'm pretty sure the iMac with no upgradeable RAM nor external GPU support is really targeting the hobbyist big-compute crowd anyway. So you don't have to worry, they are not trying to make you buy one.

Re: New iMac with M4

#386

Post by steve_adams_86 »

seabird wrote: post #355
Der_Einzige wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wish that "elite" LLM folks like yourself or many others in the field would just abandon apple/mac. Yes, they make better laptops from a hardware perspective. No, M series chips are not actually competitive with Nvidia hardware on anything except cheap (and relatively slow) inference of big models. The fact that windows laptops are considered DOA despite the insane amount of inertia behind Nvidia GPUs is jus…

Most of the world is x86/Windows machines, developers included. I would bet that for every MacBook issued there's at least a hundred Precision/Latitude/ThinkPad/Optiplex machines that went into someone's hands. The Apple hard-on is from a specific region and culture where the technical "elites" have made a bajillion dollars working on shitty phone apps and other such light work where it's possible for your trackpad/k…

No, it isn't mean-spirited at all. A lot of lucrative software development has been based around fairly trivial software, all things considered. The barrier to entry was dramatically reduced, the resources required for development were too, and the option to choose your favourite hardware became an option. I think some people might be offended by that, but the variation of required hardware goes in all kinds of directions. Look at working on firmware vs the web, for example. You'll probably encounter a ton of friction on a mac if you get into robotics.

Re: New iMac with M4

#387

Post by slashdave »

jprd wrote: post #235

I love the innovation Apple has brought with their investment in ARM. That said, I can't imagine buying a computer in the 21st century that can't be opened and upgraded, especially with a price premium attached. I just don't get it. I am in no way trying to be combative, but I'd love to hear a counterpoint that makes sense for these machines.

I used to work on my car engine too. These days, I open the hood (it's a hybrid), scratch my chin, and then close it again and bring it to the dealer.

Re: New iMac with M4

#388

Post by lomase »

askafriend wrote: post #262
jprd wrote: post #235

I love the innovation Apple has brought with their investment in ARM. That said, I can't imagine buying a computer in the 21st century that can't be opened and upgraded, especially with a price premium attached. I just don't get it. I am in no way trying to be combative, but I'd love to hear a counterpoint that makes sense for these machines.

I replace my computers before I ever feel a need to upgrade them. Computers are fast and performant for a long time now (4+ years, especially for non-professional use). And as someone who works with computers all day long, I never ever want to open one up unless I build one from scratch and want a personal project.

What about the screen?

Re: New iMac with M4

#389

Post by steve_adams_86 »

VyseofArcadia wrote: post #327

I love in Apple product announcements when they show people doing tasks that not only don't require recent hardware, but in fact could have been done without much trouble 20 or 30 years ago. Specifically talking about the ice cream spreadsheet that I suppose was there to show off how small businesses can use the new iMac. I'm sure it's a fine machine, but it does to me highlight the upgrade treadmill.

No way, we need local LLMS to help us populate the spreadsheet!

Re: New iMac with M4

#390

Post by vehemenz »

baron816 wrote: post #48
minimaxir wrote: post #3

16GB base RAM, they finally did it. They also did move the Magic Keyboard and Magic Mouse to USB-C.

Now if only they could figure out how to allow charging the Magic Mouse while it’s being used. I guess that technology is still years away.

Considering most people put the Magic Mouse in the shelf and never use it, I don't think fixing the charge port is high on anyone's list.
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