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How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

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Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#381

Post by ozim »

IggleSniggle wrote: post #20
Xeronate wrote: post #7

The article mentions one of the main appeals of factorio is you get to think like a programmer without bosses/overhead from actual work but it’s always been hard to get into games for that reason because I could just work on a side project with the same result. I really don’t understand the appeal.

The problem with side projects is that they do not have a well defined goal. Or they do, in which case something like Factorio won't have any appeal because you can just work on something more meaningful instead. Factorio is for people who want to keep programming but are too frustrated or cynical about the real world to do it there. If the real world was better, they would do it there. If the real world could be fix…

Games usually have kinks worked out - if you build project you might end up chasing one liner for a week.

From game I get instant gratification as if I play by the game guide/rules I can have something satisfying built in one evening.

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#383

Post by ornornor »

edent wrote: post #215
mikewarot wrote: post #195

Is there a similar game that lets you place logic gates and do computing? Bonus points if it's open source.

Mindustry. It is open source and allows your to build logic gates. Works on mobile, desktop, Linux, etc.

And according to this article [0] (from the mindustry article on Wikipedia), it was a hit on prison-issued android tablets until they banned it.

[0]: https://prisonjournalismproject.org/2024/03/31/popular-video...

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#384

Post by m463 »

Xeronate wrote: post #7

The article mentions one of the main appeals of factorio is you get to think like a programmer without bosses/overhead from actual work but it’s always been hard to get into games for that reason because I could just work on a side project with the same result. I really don’t understand the appeal.

I think it's more a rite of passage.¹

You don't have to make it your job.

In a similar way I think more people should change a flat tire or change the oil in their car. I think it will make them more aware, but they don't have to become a mechanic.

[1] A rite of passage is a ceremony or ritual of the passage which occurs when an individual leaves one group to enter another. It involves a significant change of status in society.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rite_of_passage

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#385

Post by m463 »

Retr0id wrote: post #13
runeblaze wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. Also Factorio AFAIK has no good copilot. Sadly the best LLMs are not fine-tuned on Factorio so my productivity takes a massive hit when moving from side projects to Factorio.

I can't tell if you're being serious or not here lol

where is our hacker news copilot when we need it?

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#386

Post by dartos »

scott_w wrote: post #363
dartos wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try graphics programming. Endless fun to be had trying to recreate shaders and having cool ideas for different vfx.

Honestly, that fits into the same boat for me. I like fixing problems for people and I’m not particularly creative in the classical sense. So messing with visual effects for the sake of it doesn’t really do it for me. Weirdly, if someone needed it for something, I’d probably pull a 60 hour shift to figure it all out ;-P

Just kind of sounds like recreational programming isn’t your thing.

That’s okay too :)

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#387

Post by dartos »

rkangel wrote: post #351
dartos wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When making software that's supposed to be used, you can't mess around that much. At the end of the day, someone has to use it and if its weird it'll be bad. This makes me sad. You don’t need to make software for mass appeal. Git is weird and bizarre (especially when initially released), but it’s used and well loved.

> Git is weird and bizarre The core of Git is incredibly simple and elegant (content addressable database). It's an amazing approach to how to represent the data that needs representing. The UI is the challenging bit, and that's because Linus just slapped something on to demonstrate it, expecting that a proper UI would be built over the plumbing he'd created.

> The UI is the challenging bit, and that's because Linus just slapped something on to demonstrate it

Which makes it weird and bizarre. Especially in the context of this whole discussion. Not really sure what you’re trying to say.

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#388

Post by dartos »

musha68k wrote: post #221
dpkirchner wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It kind of saddens me that it feels like it's now only IBM-Corpo I think about this whenever I see a new open source library hosted on its own domain with a polished and slick promo material. I really don't mean to throw shade at designers for making nice designs, but it just feels weird and corporate-y to me that the polish is a priority. There are, of course, open source projects that serve as a hook for selling…

the permaculture of: patches in emails; binaries on usenet; releases / of sources on maybe less savoury personal web sites otoh lack of basically centralized source control / git / hub / lab etc would also be missed dearly depending on context: corporate polish can be fine; especially if software "is infra"; let truly (?) fun inconsequential software be messy and / or fun if sparks joy apropos permaculture: i enjoyed…

TIS-100 was more of a puzzle game than a sandbox factory building game like factorio.

TIS has a much tighter game loop with hard success metrics for each challenge.

I wouldn’t really compare the two.

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#389

Post by dartos »

earnesti wrote: post #289
dartos wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When making software that's supposed to be used, you can't mess around that much. At the end of the day, someone has to use it and if its weird it'll be bad. This makes me sad. You don’t need to make software for mass appeal. Git is weird and bizarre (especially when initially released), but it’s used and well loved.

I do not find git weird and bizarre at all. First time I hear such nonsense. Why do you feel that way?

> I do not find git weird and bizarre at all.

You probably haven’t used it enough, honestly.

Rebasing, reflogs, pickaxes, 3 way merges, merge directions, the fact that merge directions are reversed during rebases, are all weird things that are pretty specific to git.

At least as far as how they’re presented

> First time I hear such nonsense

You don’t seem to listen very closely. Linus himself recognized git’s perceived weirdness in a talk he gave about it years ago.

Re: How 'Factorio' seduced Silicon Valley and me

#390

Post by samatman »

aniviacat wrote: post #321
archerx wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel the same way, I was building something in a game 10 years ago and I thought to myself, “I’m putting all this effort into this game and at the end I won’t really have anything to show for it and this feels like the same energy I use when programming, let me program instead”. This thought changed me from someone who plays games to someone who makes games. The only real game I find entertaining and fun these days…

> I’m putting all this effort into this game and at the end I won’t really have anything to show for it You will have something to show for it: Joy. If your only interest is to invest effort into producing something that provides some kind of physical value, then of course work will be more interesting than games. Development has fun parts and it has tedious parts. The tedious parts are what usually makes for a good…

You're discounting what's actually being said here, and said by many people.

I don't play Factorio for the same basic reason as so many others in this thread: it's too much like programming, and I want to use that energy actually programming. Something I enjoy very much, something which has paid every expense I've had for the last fifteen years, and something which directly produces value for other people.

I also pick up a little handheld most evenings and play games on it. Lately, Puzzle Bobble and Galaxian. Scratches a different itch.

The dichotomy between 'play Factorio' and 'program computer' does not reduce to the dichotomy between 'have fun' and 'joylessly pursue productive endeavors'. Clearly for some people Factorio doesn't produce the former dichotomy in the first place, and more power to 'em. For others it does, and the conclusion that this means we don't like fun is simply invalid.

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