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Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

medscape.com

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Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#381

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl »

tootie wrote: post #307
mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Purely out of curiosity, which drug is this, if you don't mind me asking?

Sodium oxybate. Active ingredient is GHB. I was stunned to find out this was a therapeutic but apparently it was developed for potential therapies and was only coincidentally discovered to be intoxicating. I used to suffer debilitating cataplexy and sodium oxybate has nearly wiped it out.

Right, GHB is an interesting one. It's always fascinated me how most recreational drugs are a wonderdrug for at least one medical condition. There are a couple of exceptions of course. Like synthetic cannabinoids. But even ethanol can be used as an antidote for methanol poisoning.

For me it's amphetamine. I have severe dehabilitating ADHD-C and lisdexamphetamine has completely changed my life.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#382

Post by neom »

seec wrote: post #372
EGreg wrote: post #314

Didnt a lot of studies finally come out by 2022 showing that SSRIs are not actually effective for most people, no more than a placebo? And the whole link between serotonin and depression was spurious… 2021: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/... 2022: https://www.jwatch.org/na55225/2022/08/16/antidepressants-wo... 2023: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-022-01661-0 In any case, I believe…

Yeah that's just society absolutely wants to label/categorize behavior that appear to fall outside of the normal, most of the time failing to understand that those behavior have roots in the genetic makeup of the person as well as his personal experience. Most of the time there is nothing really wrong with the diagnosed perso but capitalist/productive society push for normalized behavior so that individuals have less…

I read a bunch of your comments. For someone who has no idea what they're talking about you sure hold some dangerously belief. I'd strongly advise people to ignore folks who are clearly not experienced in something they profess to know about.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#383

Post by AstralStorm »

reissbaker wrote: post #284
notfed wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's true, I'm confused how this is a "double-blind, randomized, controlled trial"? Also, what's up with drug studies always having such a low sample size? Is it really that hard to find people who'd volunteer to get free drugs?

TBH there's no way to have a double blind trial of drugs like psilocybin (Scott Alexander has written a little bit about this [1] with respect to controlled trials for MDMA), for any reasonable dose size of psilocybin. Both the patient and the person administering the drug will become very aware, very quickly, if they're in the psilocybin group. 1: https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/06/05/is-pharma-research-wor...

Unsurprisingly, the way around it is to introduce a third treatment or fourth, with classical psychedelic 5-HT2 action. There are a few such choices and some are also registered antidepressants, one being DXM/bupropion, another being an ergoloid derivative or a psychedelic amphetamine like DOM.

But then you need to run a trial in a hundred or two hundred N.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#384

Post by rainclouds »

neom wrote: post #21

Psilocybin saved my life. I'm no longer suicidal, I'm no longer a practicing alcoholic, and outside of a few things here and there, I'm generally at peace with my life. I cannot express how grateful I am for psilocybin.

Psilocybin has always made me not want to drink for extended periods of time after use. Always saw that as a great benefit.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#385

Post by wisemang »

abhaynayar wrote: post #345
wisemang wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotal but whenever I’ve been asked for this guidance (having been around the block, but not a shaman by any means) I ask about the person’s dreams. Do they usually remember them, how intense are they? More intense = start with lower dose (maybe .5g). Less so maybe start with 1 or 1.5g. Of course this is subjective and relative but a rule of thumb that has worked reasonably well. For frequency, that depends on a v…

I don't plan on ever taking psilocybin- but why dreams?- Asking cause I almost never remember any- unless I wake up at a weird time- or sleep in a weird circumstance. Is it indicative of anything?- I sleep really well, never had any issues with sleep- and wake up well-rested. Is it better to remember more dreams?- if so what are the benefits and how to go about doing it?

I’d love to have an answer to this! As I said this is anecdotal, based on many years of experiences with friends, and the ones tending to have more vivid dreams seem to have more intense trips given equivalent dosage. It became a bit of a pet theory at some point so I ask about it. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s some confirmation bias or something like that at play, but given the kind of hallucinatory nature of dreams I can also imagine some sort of linked mechanism.

I also rarely remember dreams and despite occasional exceptions wouldn’t consider most of them vivid. So I tend toward heavier dosages :)

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#386

Post by llamaimperative »

notduncansmith wrote: post #312
reissbaker wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TBH there's no way to have a double blind trial of drugs like psilocybin (Scott Alexander has written a little bit about this [1] with respect to controlled trials for MDMA), for any reasonable dose size of psilocybin. Both the patient and the person administering the drug will become very aware, very quickly, if they're in the psilocybin group. 1: https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/06/05/is-pharma-research-wor...

This is wrong. You can absolutely dose psylocybin at levels that make a meaningful difference in experience (certainly enough to have an anti-depressant effect) without “tripping” or being in any way impaired. For many adults, this will be around 100-200mg of psilocybin.

It's not a question of impairment, it's a question of whether you come to some determination of whether you are in the control group or not.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#387

Post by EGreg »

neom wrote: post #382
seec wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that's just society absolutely wants to label/categorize behavior that appear to fall outside of the normal, most of the time failing to understand that those behavior have roots in the genetic makeup of the person as well as his personal experience. Most of the time there is nothing really wrong with the diagnosed perso but capitalist/productive society push for normalized behavior so that individuals have less…

I read a bunch of your comments. For someone who has no idea what they're talking about you sure hold some dangerously belief. I'd strongly advise people to ignore folks who are clearly not experienced in something they profess to know about.

What I said is factually-based

The person who replied to me I think blew it out of proportion, and went beyond what is supported by facts

While you may be right to caution people against the more reckless positions, I wish you’d also engage with what I actually said. Because the various industries thrive on exactly all of us policing each other and cautioning to not question all the convenient assumptions they are relying on us to perpetuate, to prop up the system.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#388

Post by idunnoman1222 »

GuB-42 wrote: post #332
idunnoman1222 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? name one.

When you don't know what a psychedelic experience is, any mind altering substance could do. For someone who never got drunk, it could even include alcohol. It is very hard to describe in words what a psychedelic experience is, so without a reference point, it is hard to tell if what you experienced is one or not.

Is alcohol the best you could do? I have a feeling that alcohol can definitely help with depression Probably one of the oldest drugs used in that regard

of course there aren’t actually that many drugs.. you clearly couldn’t give another tryptamine they are kindof all the same. I guess you could give a phenethylamine but obviously those are probably good at treating depression too so your studies gone to shit I suppose you could give a deliriant but that just sounds mean.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#389

Post by dontwearitout »

idunnoman1222 wrote: post #278
dontwearitout wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never found it compelling that blinding isn't possible for drug-naive patients. There are other drugs that could induce a "trip" and an unfamiliar individual could mistake for a minor psychedelic experience.

Really? name one.

Dissociatives would work, like dextromethorphan or ketamine. Psychedelics are a subset of hallucinogens.

Re: Psilocybin bests SSRI for major depression in first long-term comparison

#390

Post by hmcq6 »

DiscourseFan wrote: post #375
hmcq6 wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got serotonin syndrome from LSD? That is incredibly rare, so rare I can’t find any other documented cases Edit: did you test it to make sure it was real LSD?

Yes, it was definitley real. I mixed it with alcohol that’s why.

Did you test it?
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