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The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

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Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#381

Post by vel0city »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #82

Well, yes, we've doubled down on mediating social interactions through economic relationships. Most of the interactions adults have in their lives are with or in the framing of economic relations. Homes, are being invaded with tablets and mobile devices which bring along with them framing interactions as economic relations through ad and consumer frames. Workplaces are inherently settings of economic relations, and t…

I constantly see people lament some loss of "free" third places that apparently used to exist and be so common but no longer exist. What are these free third places which used to but no longer exist?

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#382

Post by nineplay »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #353
nineplay wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand what you mean, I grew up in a church with a youth group and group friends which I valued. However I also grew up with constant anxiety about sin and hell. It still gets back to me when my insomnia is bad. So churches and church membership aren't necessarily a net-positive. I too wish there was some sort of community my family could belong to. But I'm not taking my kids to church anytime soon.

Not all religious societies are like that. Doing it properly looks more like exercise towards a higher good than fear of failure.

I think it's unavoidable in Christianity. Even if one's immediate religious society doesn't believe in hell, it is trivially easy to find other societies which do, and other societies that believe that everyone is damned except for people who've accepted the 'right' concept in the 'right' way. I can't tell you how relieved I was when I realized I could become an Atheist and mostly put the matter out of my mind.

Quick edit: I'm aware there are a lot of theological and historical publications nature of hell and whether or not it is misunderstood. I knew that at the age of 12. It doesn't matter. No minister or theologian or historian can _prove_ that there is no hell and that I won't end up there.

God, Messiah, Heaven, Hell - we are into the area of the unknowable. We don't have training and testing data.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#383

Post by smcameron »

lawlessone wrote: post #241
StopTheWorld wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Professor Michael Rosenfeld at Stanford does research on how heterosexual couples in the US meet ( https://web.stanford.edu/~mrosenfe/ ). In 1940, over 50% met via friends or family. About 36% met at school. In 2021, about 20% met via friends or family. About 10% met at school. Over 50% met online. So the majority of US couples are now meeting via profit-maximizing corporations. He has a 2019 paper on this (and it ha…

I'm surprised dating sites work well enough that 50% of customers meet via it. They've no incentive to help you leave.

50% of heterosexual couples meeting online is not the same as 50% of customers of dating sites entering a relationship.

It could be the case that say, only 10% of dating site customers end up in a relationship, and this 10% amounts to 50% of the total couples, and the math would work out.

E.g.: suppose the total population is 1000 people, 500 of which are on a dating site, and the total number of couples is 20, 10 of which were formed via the dating site and 10 of which were formed by other means, and 960 people are out of luck.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#384

Post by Barrin92 »

ars wrote: post #337
Barrin92 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's arguably only effective if you genuinely believe the truth claims of the faith. There is this sort of strange very online revival of "trad" beliefs but you can literally tell that the people are trying to gaslight themselves into believing something they don't. Sort of a split-brain religion at best. Nietzsche's aphorism about God being dead was correct, as was his prediction about the future. Religion wouldn't…

> It's arguably only effective if you genuinely believe the truth claims of the faith. At least for Judaism that not true at all. There are enormous numbers of Jews who do not believe, and yet consider themselves Jewish and go to occasional services, and find meaning in them even while not believing. There are even pulpit Rabbis who do not believe and yet faithfully follow all the practices and teach.

>There are enormous numbers of Jews

There aren't, which is exactly why they're exceptional. After the experiences of the 20th century Jews have retained an acute awareness of threats to their very survival as a group which is why they tend to adhere to practice despite secularization. It's also likely why secular Jewish women are the only secular group with a high birth rate.

There's no historical analog to this in pretty much any other modern society, which is why you don't see secular Swedes drag themselves out of bed to go to mass on Sundays.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#385

Post by p1mrx »

robotelvis wrote: post #335

I recently joined my local Elks club and the experience has been amazing. Being social is effortless. I just show up at the lodge and people I know will be there. As a parent I can let the kids run wild with other kids within the safe confines of the lodge and have adult conversations. If I don’t have plans, I don’t need to sit home reading the internet. I go to the lodge. It’s weird that groups like the Elks have de…

> It’s weird that groups like the Elks have declined so much in recent decades

https://www.elks.org/who/missionStatement.cfm

"To be accepted as a member, one must [...] believe in God"

There are groups like UU and Sunday Assembly that don't have this requirement.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#386

Post by ska »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #345
chownie wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused, you paint a picture in which the majority drink moderately and then say "likely not healthy" but in your example 90% of the customers, the vast majority, don't have an unhealthy relationship with alcohol. So if you have a relationship with alcohol it is most likely a healthy one, and it's "addiction all the way down" for... a minority.

Yeah, well, that majority is likely buying alcohol for events, for celebrations. Not so much a 'relationship with alcohol' as a party favor. Don't drink anything at all the rest of the year. You have a favorite drink, a regular bar, a liquor store that knows you - you are probably one of the ten percent. Believe it or not, most of us don't go to a bar most months of the year.

> Don't drink anything at all the rest of the year.

That doesn't really match my observations ,or NIH data https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/alcohols-effects-health/alcohol-to...

There the majority (18 and over, and slightly under 50% of 12 and over) report consumption in the last month.

Of those, a bit under 7% report "heavy usage". You can look up the definitions, but doesn't include e.g. "usually has a beer or two with dinner".

The category you describe definitely exists, but I don't think it's anywhere close to a majority, and there are also at least a couple reasonable categories between that problematic or abusive consumption.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#387

Post by krapp »

dbrueck wrote: post #374
krapp wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The list of claims made by religion which have been disproved by science is innumerable, and the list of claims made by science which have been disproved by religion does not exist. But sure, let's pretend religion and science are equally valid....

Hey now, you're moving the goal posts quite a bit there! :) I was just pointing out that you said several things as if they were proven facts, and they are not. That's all.

>I was just pointing out that you said several things as if they were proven facts, and they are not. That's all.

The religious do that all the time, but only atheists ever seem to get called out for it. Why the double standard, I wonder?

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#388

Post by panta »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #82

Well, yes, we've doubled down on mediating social interactions through economic relationships. Most of the interactions adults have in their lives are with or in the framing of economic relations. Homes, are being invaded with tablets and mobile devices which bring along with them framing interactions as economic relations through ad and consumer frames. Workplaces are inherently settings of economic relations, and t…

Very true. Long term effects are often neglected when framing considerations from a purely economic perspective, especially when these are externalized costs, like public health.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#389

Post by nozzlegear »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #346
StopTheWorld wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Professor Michael Rosenfeld at Stanford does research on how heterosexual couples in the US meet ( https://web.stanford.edu/~mrosenfe/ ). In 1940, over 50% met via friends or family. About 36% met at school. In 2021, about 20% met via friends or family. About 10% met at school. Over 50% met online. So the majority of US couples are now meeting via profit-maximizing corporations. He has a 2019 paper on this (and it ha…

There has also been about a 70% drop in number of marriages since the 50s.

And as someone else noted, a significant drop in the number of divorces since its peak in the 1980s.
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