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No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

robkhenderson.com

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Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#381

Post by portpecos »

> “Chanel, a white thirty-three-year-old with three children, ages fifteen, nine, and three, broke up with her youngest child’s father just after we met her for the first time. When we ask about him later, she says dismissively, ‘He’s not around no more. I got rid of him…He was only here to sleep—didn’t want to pay no bills, didn’t want to do nothing. When he was here all he did was fight and argue and drink. I had to get rid of [him].’ She purses her lips in disgust as she tells us such men are unworthy of the children they father.”

She had 3 children with that guy. Instead of picking a nice dorky Christian boy, she went after the tingles. I hear so many stories from young mothers about how they had the opportunity to settle down with a wholesome boy who was willing to care for them, but she preferred the bad boy without a job because the sex was just so fucking awesome. And then she gets pregnant and start tricking on the streets. I have no sympathy for such women because they can’t help their monkey branching tendencies. The social media has convinced these girls that it’s ok to play fast and loose with sex, which results in fast and loose choices and long-term devastating social consequences. As much as men need to be taught, women need to be taught to lower their physical standards. Because the hot gangster guy who gets “play” is hardly going to settle. Sure the acne-ridden nerd is ugly, but he’ll be there for you through thick and thin.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#382

Post by squigz »

CleanRoomClub wrote: post #290
mock-possum wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not adopt? There are plenty of kids already who need a parent or two.

Why question a human’s innate desire to raise their own off-spring like we’ve evolved to do for millions of years? So often people chime in with the “just adopt” and while I agree in a perfect world, that’s exactly what would happen, but in reality it goes against a very fundamental part or human nature to opt to raise someone else’s child instead of your own. It just completely misses the human element of why people…

Because sometimes we need to question "fundamental parts of human nature"

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#383

Post by SirMaster »

carlosjobim wrote: post #342
SirMaster wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can easily afford a home, but I have no interest in buying one. I'd rather take all the extra money I save by renting and invest it in other assets. I also value my time and I don't want to have to do all the chores and upkeep a house needs. Sure I could pay someone to do all those things I suppose, but then it makes renting even that much cheaper. Owning a house used to be a goal of almost everyone? But I wonder i…

You could hire your landlord to do all the chores and upkeep for your house. I'm sure he would do it for cheaper than your rent. How many times has he been around this year to fix things for you?

My landlord is excellent IMO. They always fix any issues I have usually by the next day. I can't say I have had a ton of issues though.

But I mean stuff like mowing the lawn, shoveling the snow, cleaning out the gutters, and various other repairs and such that happen over time. That is what I mean by I value my time, and those things can take a considerable amount of time.

Also my rent is only ~$1000 per month for a 2-bedroom. It would cost me like 3x that for a basic house in mortgage plus property tax plus utilities plus maintenance etc. Sure a house is much larger space, but I don't really need all that space... And I don't find any smaller homes really. Property taxes alone would be like 1/3 to 1/2 my rent...

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#384

Post by nradov »

datavirtue wrote: post #360
JKCalhoun wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some of the jobs he can get don’t pay enough to give him the self-respect he feels he needs, and others require him to get along with unpleasant customers and coworkers, and to maintain a submissive attitude toward the boss. Same as it always was. Or perhaps moving a factory workforce into the service industry has been degrading? (Since of course we shipped the factories overseas.)

Yes, some people have to be hands-on building the physical world or they will not be happy. And by unhappy, I mean constant nagging doubts of inferiority and uselessness. Eventually you are going to check out under those circumstances. I have felt guilty my whole life working white collar, but I'm useful and people need and want me, so I get by.

Well fortunately for those people it's easy to find construction jobs now, as long as they're willing to relocate.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#385

Post by philipkglass »

anon84873628 wrote: post #243
addicted wrote: post #177

> Those who sit at or near the apex of the social ladder (who decide what behaviors are prestigious) have decided that family stability is unimportant. The author unironically writes this after pointing out that research shows that affluent families the share of families with biological parents has only dropped to 85% from 95% while the share for poor families has dropped to 30% from 95%. The idea that the social ape…

The author addresses this with the anecdote about the discussion panelist espousing different views in private vs public. The "social apex" does practice family stability themselves, but de-emphasized it as a cultural norm. Presumably through their power of, say, academic research and media production. Though the article could have done a better job explaining this. It's like a reverse phenomenon of "do as I say, not…

Though the article could have done a better job explaining this. It's like a reverse phenomenon of "do as I say, not as I do".

That's probably what the article meant but I'm skeptical that it makes a significant difference in behavior. There are other positive behaviors that "social apex" people say and do but lower income people as a group still don't imitate them. Strictures like "don't use tobacco," "don't impregnate/get impregnated as a teen", "drink unsweetened iced tea instead of Coke," and "use free time to exercise instead of snacking and binge watching" are significantly less popular among low income/status groups than high income/status groups.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#386

Post by beefnugs »

Doches wrote: post #229
nikanj wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being emotionally available, participating in chores, providing a comfortable lifestyle while not working all the time, being reasonably well-read and good conversationalist, etc. Have you not noticed how much more we expect from men as partners? NB I’m not saying we shouldn’t expect more from them. I’m saying many are seeing the list of demands, and opting out of even trying

> Being emotionally available, participating in chores, providing a comfortable lifestyle while not working all the time, being reasonably well-read and good conversationalist, etc. I...honestly cannot tell if this is meant ironically. Those things seem like table stakes for being an adult. It's not "expecting more of them" to simply expect people to...grow up, and help care for the other people in their lives. You w…

But there is a difference between seeing a highly publicized and pervasive media push that there is a huge list of things you must already be good at... vs casually starting a relationship and learning along the way you must do all these things for long term success.

Not to mention there is no indication from women that they will tolerate the few things you need to learn about and improve.

This is why more just give up prematurely.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#387

Post by antisthenes »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #175
motohagiography wrote: post #67

simply, when a boy is dependent on his mother's approval for a sense of self it's all the justification he needs, and there is almost no increasingly-terrible situation in which a mother will not love her son. the worse his life, the more he depends on her, the less abandoned she is. it's the definition of a co-dependent cycle. Maybe he replaces her or shares that role with other women, but he ends up in the same cyc…

Is there any problem caused or experienced by men that you don't blame women for?

There was nothing blaming women in that post. Get some reading comprehension please.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#388

Post by codr7 »

welshwelsh wrote: post #148

What I took away from this article is that many low-income men have no real interest in being fathers or raising children. Yet, they tend to produce children anyway. We should focus on making birth control more accessible, instead of trying to make people take responsibility for raising children they obviously don't want. That guy who spends all his money on weed and booze while his kids go hungry? He should have got…

You have no right to judge like that, other peoples choices in general are none of your business because it's not your life; and come one, you obviously don't know the whole story.

How about buying a bag of food for the guy instead? Get to know him and try to understand the path that led him there. Like, actually solve a problem, make something better instead of hating more.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#389

Post by antisthenes »

ryandrake wrote: post #201
ptsneves wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was telling my wife about the loss of religion and how that leaves many people without without purpose. Religion is often a precursor to the cultural norms we live, without even being aware of. Sunday is for resting in the west for example. To find a reason to keep living is very hard and may entail an acceptance that all is for nothing and being content with that. Many people cannot walk that path or have deep anx…

> I was telling my wife about the loss of religion and how that leaves many people without without purpose. The hole left by religion is being quickly filled in by politics, which are taking on increasingly quasi-religious properties.

Which is frankly a lot more dangerous, considering there's no more clear separation between church and state, since the state becomes your religion and allows you to make real policies.

Basically, belonging to a church didn't mean you could lose your house, but with someone who creates a policy targeting the other end of the political spectrum could very easily affect you negatively economically.

Which is batshit insane and scary, which leads to further polarization.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#390

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL »

pwthornton wrote: post #379
Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are chances for chronic pain though. A few people on HN said they wouldn't have done that if they knew what would happen

Yes. I had pain for a while. Mine was not a quick recovery, and I now sleep with a body pillow between my knees (although my back and hips like this). I do a lot of cycling, so I am sure that is part of the issue. Overall, I would recommend it. My wife and I didn't want to risk having more kids.

That sounds like a huge negative to me. How much will it worsen with age?

Really for males there is condom (big downside in feeling) or surgery with chronic pain as option. Great options.

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